½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

I wanted to find workers and said to my wife, i want to advertise in the newspaper for staff and she said 'are you crazy?' do you want strangers that will kill you in the night or rob you? I thought she was joking but she wasn't. I said how the hell else am i going to get the people with the right skills and how does every other business do it, and she said you should only employ people you know or been recommended to you. Which isn't always practical.   While skeptical of this lack of trust, after 6 months of experiencing thefts , lies, generally dodgy behaviour and corruption I think now it is a serious problem in finding people that are honest.

I understand how you feel. Whatever it will,you have to take it as your responsibility. Why don't you find workers through headhunting sites? I found one and hired him after interviews.
He didn't make me disappointed.
I suggest that you should only take an advice even from your wife not a final decision.
Decision is always on you.

do you have any good sites to recommend. any free ones?

bongolongo wrote:

I have been living in Vietnam now for 6 months and  farm goats in Cu chi and will be opening a goat restaurant. But everyone i meet from landlords, to suppliers , to employees, to even family members are trying to rip me off. I know it is hard to generalise and vietnam is a poor country but i think their is definitely something extreme going on here.

Welcome to Vietnam.
Everyone is chipping in to help to Vietnamise as quickly as possible. They are charging you a small fee for their efforts. It will take a while before Vietnam conducts business according to a business conduct you are used to.

bongolongo wrote:

I wanted to find workers and said to my wife, i want to advertise in the newspaper for staff and she said 'are you crazy?' do you want strangers that will kill you in the night or rob you? I thought she was joking but she wasn't. I said how the hell else am i going to get the people with the right skills and how does every other business do it, and she said you should only employ people you know or been recommended to you. Which isn't always practical.   While skeptical of this lack of trust, after 6 months of experiencing thefts , lies, generally dodgy behaviour and corruption I think now it is a serious problem in finding people that are honest.

Many things have to improve before Vietnam is like Australia.
Education and Poverty are the main causes. It is catch 22.
Listen to the wisdom of your loved ones. They consider your safety the main priority.
You have chosen to live in new "land". The faster you can out think like a local and even family members (not to hurt their feelings), the more likely you keep your head.
The farming methods are different, and probably not acceptable to you anyway. You should learn the local methods, and then re-train your farmhands.
How did your grandfather farm? That is an indication how far back you have to go. You came prepared to make a new start.
Well.. START.
Good Luck.

bongolongo wrote:

I have been living in Vietnam now for 6 months and  farm goats in Cu chi and will be opening a goat restaurant. But everyone i meet from landlords, to suppliers ,to employees, to even family members are trying to rip me off. I know it is hard to generalise and vietnam is a poor country but i think their is definitely something extreme going on here.
...
While skeptical of this lack of trust, after 6 months of experiencing thefts , lies, generally dodgy behaviour and corruption I think now it is a serious problem in finding people that are honest.

You posted a very "elephant in the room" question that I wouldn't mind addressing head on.  It's been in the newspapers lately how untrustworthy the general population appears to westerners/foreigners.  One just needs to pick up the newspaper (Tuoi Tre) to read any articles on how HCMC is focused on combating crimes against foreigners.  A few examples are: setting up a tourist police, verifying taxi meters, checking on licensed taxis, banning panhandling, restricting street sales on streets, etc.

I've often wondered about these issues and have came up with a few thoughts after learning a bit about the history of Vietnam.  Afterall, the psychology of people are based on how they grew up in their environment.

Alot of people seem to forget that there were several great wars that happened in Vietnam.  And a good number of the population lived through three major wars (against Japan, France, and America but also were affected by two minor border wars with China and Cambodia).  Anyone that have gone through war will know there is a severe shortage of resources.  To survive, you'd eat anything (includes dogs, cats, mice, birds, insects), you'd say anything (i.e. lie) and do anything. 

So to make a long story short...in war you don't trust anyone.  You'd lie, cheat, and steal to keep yourself alive.  One cannot just forget the consequences of war just stops after one generation.  They get passed on.

This isn't the only answer but I do feel that living through war has had a deep psychological impact on the population and that includes future generations. 

So what I am saying is that one of the reasons you feel that "most vietnamese i meet are untrustworthy" is a result of themselves, their parents or their grandparents living through war.

lol! I feel for you bro. Been there many times...you almost have to be paranoid to keep bad things from happening.

many good sites: ex- careerlink.vn, vietnamworks.com, careerbilder.vn, jobstreet.com, timviecnhanh.com, or muaban.net.....................you may find these usefully

I would like to give 9 score out of 10 to member Tran Hung Dao:D
Well explained!
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do"!
That is what you should do exactly!
I am here nearly 5 years. I have not much problem for anything. In every country there has bad people more than good one!
We should handle both with our own way.

Sorry if my view is so short. I dont talk about recruit for the restaurant. I just talk about my idea for recruiting for the farm goats.

So guys, you think headhunter company can find the workers work for that. I dont think so. And in this case, these page: careerlink.vn, vietnamworks.com, careerbilder.vn, jobstreet.com, timviecnhanh.com is useful ? I dont think so. If you find officer, or worker whom got graduted from Unviversity is very easy. But just find workers whom work by hand, no need a lot skill... So forget to find by internet' page.

Yuli

Yuli_nguyen wrote:

Sorry if my view is so short. I dont talk about recruit for the restaurant. I just talk about my idea for recruiting for the farm goats.
So guys, you think headhunter company can find the workers work for that. I dont think so. And in this case, these page: careerlink.vn, vietnamworks.com, careerbilder.vn, jobstreet.com, timviecnhanh.com is useful ? I dont think so. If you find officer, or worker whom got graduted from Unviversity is very easy. But just find workers whom work by hand, no need a lot skill... So forget to find by internet' page.
Yuli

Excuse me. Are you on the right page?
We are not on recruitment.. for office or farms.

For those who have dealings with China, it is not that different.
The trust will happen sooner or later.
it will happen... one day.

hELLnoi wrote:

Yuli_nguyen wrote:

Sorry if my view is so short. I dont talk about recruit for the restaurant. I just talk about my idea for recruiting for the farm goats.
So guys, you think headhunter company can find the workers work for that. I dont think so. And in this case, these page: careerlink.vn, vietnamworks.com, careerbilder.vn, jobstreet.com, timviecnhanh.com is useful ? I dont think so. If you find officer, or worker whom got graduted from Unviversity is very easy. But just find workers whom work by hand, no need a lot skill... So forget to find by internet' page.
Yuli

Excuse me. Are you on the right page?
We are not on recruitment.. for office or farms.

Dear Hellnoi.

I dont think i go wrong page. Just bcz here many people comment about these page and headhunter company, it isnt suitable in this case. I mean that.

Yuli

hELLnoi wrote:

Yuli_nguyen wrote:

Sorry if my view is so short. I dont talk about recruit for the restaurant. I just talk about my idea for recruiting for the farm goats.
So guys, you think headhunter company can find the workers work for that. I dont think so. And in this case, these page: careerlink.vn, vietnamworks.com, careerbilder.vn, jobstreet.com, timviecnhanh.com is useful ? I dont think so. If you find officer, or worker whom got graduted from Unviversity is very easy. But just find workers whom work by hand, no need a lot skill... So forget to find by internet' page.
Yuli

Excuse me. Are you on the right page?
We are not on recruitment.. for office or farms.

Yuli_nguyen is just taking about finding workers for bongolongo's goat farm.  It is a "blue collar" industry and Yuli is explaining that you don't go on the Internet to recruit blue collar workers.  The Internet is good to find "white collar" workers, i.e. office workers, college graduates and the like.  It is in reply to Truong Xuan's post recommending websites to find workers.

bongolong can just print out a bunch of flyers looking for workers, go around town and paste them on electricity/phone poles.  It's what the locals do.  If looking for more than 50 employees, then try posting at a job center (Trung tâm giới thiệu việc làm) near Cu Chi.

Sadly, this happens to many of us who read the first line and jump to conclusions.
bongolongo is having a crisis on TRUST.
"But everyone i meet from landlords, to suppliers , to employees, to even family members are trying to rip me off."
"While skeptical of this lack of trust, after 6 months of experiencing thefts , lies, generally dodgy behaviour and corruption I think now it is a serious problem in finding people that are honest."
Tran Hung Dao gave a good account on why the people have an "untrustworthy" nature. That is what bongolongo is unfamiliar with, coming from Australia where Trust and Honesty is the norm. bongolongo will advertise in the newspapers to get workers. In Cu Chi, I will think word of mouth travels wider and faster than an advert in the newspaper. How many farm hands you know are well educated to read newspapers?

Sounds like they really got your goat.  That's baaaaaad!

Seems like you're hanging out with the wrong crowd. On average id say the Vietnamese i've met are more honest compared to my own country.

Vietnamese, like any other people walking this planet, are trustworthy.  You just attracted the wrong Vietnamese.  I would do a little more research and utilize a different approach, if I were you.

A little hint:  the wife is a pretty good place to start.

bongolongo wrote:

I have been living in Vietnam now for 6 months and  farm goats in Cu chi and will be opening a goat restaurant. But everyone i meet from landlords, to suppliers , to employees, to even family members are trying to rip me off. I know it is hard to generalise and vietnam is a poor country but i think their is definitely something extreme going on here.

I just saw another post of Bongolongo that you have just got married with a Vietnamese wife... Then, I am sorry have to say this, but there must be something wrong with you... And I also agree with Wild_1

Wish you luck enough to meet real Vietnamese who are kind and friendly!

hi!
I live in Cu Chi and i think you are unlucky when all of people you meet is untrustworthy. People in vietnam, some are friendly and kind but some not. don't too pessimisted. I hope you will meet some kind people in the fulture.

About your work. I thinks your wife are ringt. Cu chi is a small poor country. don't have so much people read Cu Chi newsppaper. newsppaper just intended for rich and idle people.

Sorry if my english not good

Have a good time!

I will bite my tongue on this one.

Wild_1 wrote:

Vietnamese, like any other people walking this planet, are trustworthy.  You just attracted the wrong Vietnamese.  I would do a little more research and utilize a different approach, if I were you.

A little hint:  the wife is a pretty good place to start.

There are a few exceptions, taxi drivers, those guys sitting on corners trying to sell you drugs, young women or boys. Proably add divorce lawyers out of principle, but you will find these types worldwide.  IMO the vietnames are honest and trustworthy, even some taxi drivers.

Yuli_nguyen wrote:

Sorry if my view is so short. I dont talk about recruit for the restaurant. I just talk about my idea for recruiting for the farm goats.

So guys, you think headhunter company can find the workers work for that. I dont think so. And in this case, these page: careerlink.vn, vietnamworks.com, careerbilder.vn, jobstreet.com, timviecnhanh.com is useful ? I dont think so. If you find officer, or worker whom got graduted from Unviversity is very easy. But just find workers whom work by hand, no need a lot skill... So forget to find by internet' page.

Yuli

You are absolutely right about that! They probably don't even know how to use a computer to post a CV on the internet to begin with. He should listen to his wifey.

colinoscapee wrote:

I will bite my tongue on this one.

Why?  It's the elephant in the room.  Everybody knows it's there but nobody wants to talk about it. 

bongolongo asked a very valid question to a serious problem.  This issue has come up again and again.  The national economy is already suffering because foreigner tourists leave Vietnam with a bad taste in their mouth;  they don't come back. 

I don't have the answers but if we discuss it, maybe we can have some ideas on how to improve the situation. 

I want to hear your thought, mate.

I will just say this,if the locals are so honest, why is it that all the houses have major security and locked up. You cant park your bike somewhere without a guard,security guards have to sleep in businesses at night,my friends tell me not to trust anyone. If the locals are so honest then why is there so much theft or is it that everyone is paranoid here.

colinoscapee wrote:

I will just say this,if the locals are so honest, why is it that all the houses have major security and locked up. You cant park your bike somewhere without a guard,security guards have to sleep in businesses at night,my friends tell me not to trust anyone. If the locals are so honest then why is there so much theft or is it that everyone is paranoid here.

Glad you see the elephant in the room.  So how can we improve it?

Monkey see, monkey do. When the government and police stop, maybe the rest will follow.

colinoscapee wrote:

Monkey see, monkey do. When the government and police stop, maybe the rest will follow.

Good point

I had dinner last night with a Vietnamese lady who owned a factory  in Vietnam for 8 years,her husband is a foreigner. She sold it off as she was sick of the thieving from staff and the government officials always making life difficult and wanting money. This seems to be a very common scenario,the mentality seems to be, lets welcome people to start up a business, then make life hell and squeeze them for everything we can.

I have a theory, i think part of it due to communism in the past. Religion was not freely allowed to practice and like it or not most religions teach basic tenants like not stealing, honesty etc. I also think when the markets opened up it became a dog eat dog race with a lot of corruption like in most developing countries. You had to keep up if you wanted a piece of the pie.  Like i said it is just a theory.

If you read the teachings of Uncle Ho, what has evolved in Viet Nam is not what he wanted. Seems they keep using him as a figurehead but dont follow his teachings. I have asked locals what Uncle Ho would think if he came back to Viet Nam now, most say he would be disgusted at the greed that has taken over the country.As the saying goes,if socialists understood economics,they wouldnt be socialists.Lets hope that the average Vietnamese will obtain better health care and infastructre in the coming years.

i had the same issue with vietnamese( most of them) they think tourist's and foreigners are multi millionaire, i dunno, is this a culture in south east of asia or what..

hmd63 wrote:

i had the same issue with vietnamese( most of them) they think tourist's and foreigners are multi millionaire, i dunno, is this a culture in south east of asia or what..

But they are right tho, in their country you are multi millionares.

People have told me and i have seen in other blogs that when they went to India , they had the same problems their with getting ripped off all the time. I think their has been academic studies too that some cultures have trust than others. The result is , it is a lot harder to operate in an environment with a lack of trust , because the cost are higher. An interesting question is whether a country that starts off with low trust can over time developed into a country of high trust or is once a corrupt country always a corrupt country.

Well look at the Albanians in Europe, nobody trusts them due to them constantly being involved with dishonest activities. Here in Viet Nam you just have to seek out people you can trust and hope for the best. My VN girlfriend is someone that I trust very much, all my friends like her and so do my VN friends.Locals can generally tell you if someone is not a decent person, I have learnt to listen to what they have to say about someone that you may have to do dealings with.

yeah. it is hard to generalize, but their are trends. The imprisonment rate for Vietnamese is disproportionate to their percentage of the population. All the same, the problem is that alot of the time you don't operate a lie detector on everyone you meet or associate with and it is only after some time that you know they are dodgy. i will stay clear of albania. thanks.

Colinoscapee, you trust your VN girlfriend. Most of us who are attached to a Vietnamese would trust our spouse. Otherwise, there won't be a bond. Can I trust YOUR gf?
Trust is relative and there is always a number attached to it.

hELLnoi wrote:

Colinoscapee, you trust your VN girlfriend. Most of us who are attached to a Vietnamese would trust our spouse. Otherwise, there won't be a bond. Can I trust YOUR gf?
Trust is relative and there is always a number attached to it.

Yes you could trust my girlfriend if you dealt with her on a business level. She actually has very good morals and is always helping others for no personal gain. Now the question would be if I could trust your lady in the same way.

colinoscapee wrote:

hELLnoi wrote:

Colinoscapee, you trust your VN girlfriend. Most of us who are attached to a Vietnamese would trust our spouse. Otherwise, there won't be a bond. Can I trust YOUR gf?
Trust is relative and there is always a number attached to it.

Yes you could trust my girlfriend if you dealt with her on a business level. She actually has very good morals and is always helping others for no personal gain.

Your VN gf is probably young and inexperience.
Which is good for you to establish a trusting relationship.

colinoscapee wrote:

Now the question would be if I could trust your lady in the same way.

Send her 1M VND with a SAE to find out. hEE2

Does she take Paypal.