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davees2 wrote:

This is honestly disgusting. I have my account in OTP and always wondering how many charges per month are made on it. I did not even no they have such a super high fees for picking up the money from own bank.

Yup, it's horrible.  Obviously people will pick their ATMs. This table has already changed our behaviour. It's cheaper for us to drive 5km to own bank than use the local OTP ATM - the "foreign" cards cost is 2.5 L of petrol/gas. We keep a copy of this table in the car.

I am however heartened to hear the dreaded Financial Transaction Tax is probably illegal according to legal opinion in the EC/Brussels.  That'll nobble it.

I guess we can all see why the party currently in power is so popular here when it "fights the banks" (even if more rhetoric than substance).

As an American, where I was paying in the States $2 to $4 dollars per ATM transaction (half of that was called an "ATM maintenance fee" (they must spend countless minutes thinking up ways to part you with your money)), I guess I have lost the personal internal outrage about these fees and long ago adjusted my banking activities accordingly.

The Financial Transaction Tax is 0,3% for cash withdrawals.

Like in the chart : 20.000 Ft / 60 Ft and 50.000 Ft / 150Ft

Everything you pay in addition to that amount is charged by the bank - not the state

TornadoHH wrote:

The Financial Transaction Tax is 0,3% for cash withdrawals.

Like in the chart : 20.000 Ft / 60 Ft and 50.000 Ft / 150Ft

Everything you pay in addition to that amount is charged by the bank - not the state

Yes, these are the ATM fees. In the UK, bank accounts pay almost no interest and also charge no fees for domestic transactions unless you borrow money without asking. They get you one way or another. What people do is keep amounts of working cash in their current accounts and have other accounts for savings which impose penalties for early redemption but pay higher interest. 

The FTT will be dead and hopefully properly and permanently buried. It'll never get out the starting gate. UK has already said it will immediately take it to court if there is an attempt to implement it.

See here:

Just wanted to point out the FTT for most banks is the smallest percentage of the charges.

I have a "free" hungarian bank account with "free" creditcard and the same in germany. I only pay this FTT here if i withdraw cash.

fluffy2560 wrote:

See here:

Different tax. Hungary is not a member of this tax agreement. In Hungary there is a local national transaction tax. First the EU was all upset about that. This made world wide headlines.

Then the EU quietly created their own FTT when they saw it was generating income in Hungary. Income which could be misspent somewhere else by politicians. Politicians know a good thing when they see it.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

See here:

Different tax. Hungary is not a member of this tax agreement. In Hungary there is a local national transaction tax. First the EU was all upset about that. This made world wide headlines.

Then the EU quietly created their own FTT when they saw it was generating income in Hungary. Income which could be misspent somewhere else by politicians. Politicians know a good thing when they see it.

Yes, you are right but this seems to be one thing amongst a range of problems with the FTT. The mistake of the FTT is to make it external ancd cross border.

Apart from encouraging cash only or even barter transactions, one question is if it works across borders or not and is it a form of VAT? e.g If I buy something mail order something from Hungary (unlikely), presumably I won't have to pay it. Or is it levied on me outside the country by the card processor? I'm pretty sure that would be grounds for challenge as it's a form of VAT.  For sure, the 0.3% tax is quite a high rate if it's applied to deposits and withdrawals, e.g. 0.6% round trip. 

It might be interesting to know if, for example, Hungarian businesses or individals would be able to do all their banking outside the country and either avoid totally or defer the tax by making all cash transactions outside. Has there been a rush to open accounts in Austria?

fluffy2560 wrote:

I'm pretty sure that would be grounds for challenge as it's a form of VAT.

I for one think VAT should be shot, dead, with prejudice.

Or at least put a 10% max limit on it. Excessive VAT kills economies.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

I'm pretty sure that would be grounds for challenge as it's a form of VAT.

I for one think VAT should be shot, dead, with prejudice.

Or at least put a 10% max limit on it. Excessive VAT kills economies.

I really dont know what Hungary's Government is up to. They are so killing the economy... 27% VAT. Highest in whole europe. They dont leave out one single chance to squeeze the last out of the already poor population.

The latest "brightest" idea was to make whole central Budapest a paid parking zone. If you dont happen to live in the district where you park you gotta pay Mon-Fri 8-18h. What does it mean? Either you pay about 10.000-17.000 HUF extra per month for a parking space at work or use public transport - which does not work out for everyone.

On the other empty stores (hmmm maybe they are empty because people dont have any money to spend) are being demolished now to build private parking lots which offer cheaper rates than the state rates...

TornadoHH wrote:

The latest "brightest" idea was to make whole central Budapest a paid parking zone. If you dont happen to live in the district where you park you gotta pay Mon-Fri 8-18h. What does it mean? Either you pay about 10.000-17.000 HUF extra per month for a parking space at work or use public transport - which does not work out for everyone.

On the other empty stores (hmmm maybe they are empty because people dont have any money to spend) are being demolished now to build private parking lots which offer cheaper rates than the state rates...

I've heard in some depressed places/countries, it's cheaper to knock empty buildings down to avoid paying property taxes. I think this is what they are doing in places like Detroit.

I've found that it can be cheaper to park on the Buda side and simply walk over to the Pest side. Past year, it's become almost impossible to find street parking.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

I'm pretty sure that would be grounds for challenge as it's a form of VAT.

I for one think VAT should be shot, dead, with prejudice.

Or at least put a 10% max limit on it. Excessive VAT kills economies.

This is the EU flagship tax. No way it'll be scrapped or lowered. Places with relatively low income taxes always end up with high consumption taxes.

It's OK if you are an island and you can control the border and smuggling but if not, and the neighbour is low tax, then people will spend their cash where it goes furthest. Taxes drive people away.

Unfortunately politicians don't get or don't care about screwing the population and economy when they have vanity schemes to finance.

fluffy2560 wrote:

This is the EU flagship tax. No way it'll be scrapped or lowered.

Yeah, I know. Still like to complain about it however.

TornadoHH wrote:

27% VAT. Highest in whole europe.

This rate is potentially dead weight on the economy:



Which has happened. And why the national government is scrambling to find other things to tax.

Taxes are fine if they actually return value. Taxes support fire departments for example.

But do politicians actually spend tax money in a way that avoids dead weight?

I heard the Parliament in Hungary passed a 1.5 Billion Forint (5 million Euro) series of grants for villages to have an "event" and bonfire on September 29th. To get the grant you have to have a bonfire exactly on September 29th.

If true: 5 Million Euro to incinerate things. And did anyone tell Parliament that bonfire smoke is a local pollutant?. Tax money "well spent"?

fluffy2560 wrote:

it's cheaper to knock empty buildings down to avoid paying property taxes. I think this is what they are doing in places like Detroit.

There are many reasons for ongoing demolitions in Detroit. Lack of funds for building upkeep, vandalism, urban blight (empty lots looks less depressing than run down empty houses), tax avoidance, etc.

Detroit is a example Hungary should pay attention to. Audio, Mercedes, Suzuki, etc. will not be here forever. But I honestly have little faith there is any real long term planning or political will to do so.

and another disgusting "tax" : (it just fits the discussion i think but maybe we can open a new thread)

car "Acquisition fee". I didnt find a better translation for "Vagyonszerzési illeték".

When you purchase an used car and have it registered on your name they charge about:

40 Euro : for new car papers - In germany its a little less (and wages are 3-4x higher)

60 Euro : for a mandatory inspection that the car isnt stolen.(not bad money for a 10 minute job considering the avarage mechanic takes 15 Euros per HOUR).

This is already overpriced but maybe still able to justify because its actual work/goods that has been done but now comes the interesting part :

Vagyonszerzési illeték - car "Acquisition fee" :

It depends massively on the power output of the car and also a bit on the age.

For a 10 year old car with 70HP you pay about 70 Euro // 140HP : 140 EURO

How can you justify this ? Its not a one time only fee. Everytime the car changes the owner/user this fee is charged which is based on the cars specifications.

Is this even legal according to EU laws??

Its a lot harder to sell older used cars because you still have to pay relative high fees for the acquisition. As a result i guess people keep their old cars longer and buy less new/newer used cars. Again the gov effectively kills the market/economy. What does the gov think are their benefits? If its too expensive people just wont do it. They dont gain more money from used car sales because people just change cars less often and also lose the taxes from new car sales (of course there is also a registration tax for new cars ))

TornadoHH wrote:

i think but maybe we can open a new thread

I think it would be interesting to start a new thread in any case. Something like:

What is the most outrageous, silly, jaw dropping or otherwise inane tax or fee you had to pay in Hungary?

I know I have a few comments I could add there.....