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05/31/21

Texanbrazil makes an excellent point about your Cadastro de Pessoa Física, CPF.   Since you're a Brazilian citizen,  I've assumed that you already have one; if not, get one ASAP, either in-country or at a Brazilian diplomatic mission near you.  That's a must-have for any economic activity.

Thank you guys, I appreciate your guys help.

How did you guys find someone who you could trust (attorney and a Brazilian tax accountant)? is there a webiste similar to upwork in Brazil or was it word of mouth?

I didn't even know that you had to hire a civil engineer for inspection in Brazil I thought people didn't even inspect the properties like they do in the US.

Yes, I got a CPF, Brazilian ID and Brazilian passport as well.

I was lucky to have 4 lawyers in the family and guided me to one in Curitiba. Her firm also has a tax attorney which handles closing and funds. Then transfer to my wife upon marriage.
Three worked in Parana

05/31/21

Viviexpat wrote:

Thank you guys, I appreciate your guys help.

How did you guys find someone who you could trust (attorney and a Brazilian tax accountant)? is there a webiste similar to upwork in Brazil or was it word of mouth?

I didn't even know that you had to hire a civil engineer for inspection in Brazil I thought people didn't even inspect the properties like they do in the US.

Yes, I got a CPF, Brazilian ID and Brazilian passport as well.

There is a website you can check, , through which you can contact attorneys; you'll still want to meet them and get a feel for them before you make any decisions.

Honestly though, while we interviewed a couple of attorneys we met through jusbrasil, we ended up going with one that was recommended by our accountant, and we met our accountant through the recommendation of a friend.

With respect to a house inspection, deferred maintenance is an unfortunate fact of life in Brazil, so I'd certainly recommend it for any property over five or ten years old.  A lot of the problems with our apartment were so obvious that we didn't need an expert to tell us about them, but we did want an opinion about any hidden issues that might have drawn his eye  and escaped ours.

Thank you Abthree and Texanbrazil.

I am looking for homes on OLX.com .br and wanted to ask you if you or anyone have experience with this site to buy a property? I'm seeing lots of posts of homes that appear to be undervalued and sold by owner. I'm trying to avoid getting scammed what do you guys recommend when wanting to work directly with the owner but also to not fall victim of scammers? Do I need to hire a lawyer and a real estate agent if I want to buy a home directly from the owner? Is it best to stay all altogether and just buy a property that is being sold by a real estate company?

Thank you all sm

Viviexpat wrote:

Thank you Abthree and Texanbrazil.

I am looking for homes on OLX.com .br and wanted to ask you if you or anyone have experience with this site to buy a property? I'm seeing lots of posts of homes that appear to be undervalued and sold by owner. I'm trying to avoid getting scammed what do you guys recommend when wanting to work directly with the owner but also to not fall victim of scammers? Do I need to hire a lawyer and a real estate agent if I want to buy a home directly from the owner? Is it best to stay all altogether and just buy a property that is being sold by a real estate company?

Thank you all sm

06/04/21

I used that site, but only to find out about properties and prices in buildings that we were already interested in.  OLX doesn't give street addresses, but we were able to recognize the buildings and neighborhoods from the streetview pictures.  At that point, I had been visiting Manaus for three years and had been living here for almost one; my Brazilian husband has lived here all his life.  We were very confident in our knowledge both of the city and in how things are done here.  We walked through every property we saw on OLX that seemed interesting to us; most didn't live up to the pictures.  We found an apartment on OLX in the building where we were already renting that was perfect for us, got input on the owner from the building staff, and decided to deal with her directly.   We still had our own lawyer review and pass on all the paperwork, and hired a civil engineer recommended by our accountant to do an inspection. 

If the apartment we bought had not been available, or if it had turned out to be unacceptable, our next step would have been to find an agent to help us find something we wanted to buy.  I would never try to buy property in Brazil (or probably anywhere else) remotely, without seeing it personally.  Not being an expert in Brazilian real estate law, I certainly would want an independent expert opinion on the transaction before making a commitment.

Thank you Abthree.

After you guys found the desired home how log did the whole process take until you got the keys and everything?

I did not use the site for housing. I did when looking for a car, As mention when I went to see them, they were not what was advertised,
As for closing; 6 months for documents from the lawyer and their agent. 1 month for the banks to get the money straight. (Even with my bank working with BB) POA was one delay since I had to fly back to the states.

Viviexpat wrote:

Thank you Abthree.

After you guys found the desired home how log did the whole process take until you got the keys and everything?

06/04/21

Long story short, we walked through the apartment for the first time on March 19, had the engineer examine it on April 13, made an offer to the seller on April 26, reviewed all documents with our attorney as we received them, passed papers and took possession on May 16, completed registrations on May 21, started a massive renovation project on June 1, completed the renovation on August 7, and moved in on August 10.

Nothing in Brazil moves this quickly, particularly if there's construction involved; few projects in the US do either, for that matter.  We were able to do it because :

  -- We had very motivated seller, who was anxious to move the property.  She's a real estate investor and trained as a lawyer, so she knew exactly what was needed and gave us absolutely clean documentation.  We thought that her asking price was fair, given the amount of work that the apartment needed, and made a cash offer, so she had every reason to cooperate.  And she's honest:  everything she told us panned out.

-- We have very good banking relationships.  We met with our Banco do Brasil branch manager the week before the purchase to go through all the details with him, and the total purchase price, plus the amount we had budgeted for the renovation, was available to us 48 hours after the transfer was initiated in the US. 

-- There are people on the building staff who traditionally receive "commissions" when apartments sell.  Since we had been living in the building as renters, we had developed relationships with these people, and agreed to pay them what they expected -- if, in return, they helped us in finding the builder and materials to finish the renovation, on time and within budget.  That turned out to be a remarkably good investment.

-- We had an excellent builder -- recommended by the building staff -- who knew his work, was smart and resourceful, worked hard, and ran his team well.

-- We were on the job site several times a day (it was easy, we lived nine floors below), to answer questions, resolve issues, provide emergency supplies, see that the work was going forward, and ensure that minor hangups didn't become big delays.

-- We set up payment milestones for everyone, paid everyone immediately and in full as milestones were met, and took receipts.

-- We were incredibly, enormously, almost unimaginably lucky.

Nothing brilliant or exotic, but it would have been impossible to accomplish remotely.

I was trying to find helpful information about purchasing property in Brazil with US Dollars. So got a couple of questions not sure if anyone here can help me with.

1)  I've seen lots of conflicting information about how much money is lost in transfering funds from the US to Brazil. From just the exchange rate + the .38% + fixed fees, to up to 15% loss. What was your experience with this and how much you lost or paid on that?

2) Is it possible or even considered legal to make a property purchase in Brazil but if both seller and buyer have US accounts, agree to a price in dollars but register the sale at the current exchange rate in reais?

Good question.
All the transactions must be done in Brazil for taxes and such. I would find a lawyer for such. Cannot dodge RF and Central Bank.
If the seller has an account in the US it may be possible, but I will defer.
I am surprised by the 15% fees on transactions. I personally did not have that issue, we settled on a Real and US price and wired the money to their account. There paid all closing and taxes.

06/12/21

Ravager,

1. My experience was the same as Texanbrazil's; I didn't find the costs involved in transferring and converting the funds at all onerous.

2. Article 318 of the Código Civil invalidates all contracts denominated in foreign currency, with certain exceptions, mostly related to export-import, currency trading, and international lending.  You should review a transaction that involves exchange of Dollars in overseas accounts with a Brazilian attorney in advance of any commitments.

(°ù±ð´Ú±ð°ù±ð²Ô³¦±ð:Ìý )  (edited)

I was able to talk with both a Brazilian lawyer and the notary for the district where the property is registered in Brazil. They both said its not a problem that any private sale or purchase of property to be paid with funds from and/or to banks outside Brazil. Just that both seller and buyer agree to the chosen method  of payment and in the deed the value should be registered in local currency even though the payment would not be registered by any banks in Brazil.

Only problem with this for both buyer and seller, is that seller should register this overseas account on his next tax declaration (not my problem anyway) and that when I register the new property under my name in my next tax declaration, if by any chance I get audited for the increase of patrimony without using Brazilian funds, that I should provide proof of legality for the source of those funds (which I suppose should be bank statements from my bank indicating the amount was from investments and/or savings along many years)

Here my experience wiring fund to Brazil was to buy a car. First most people suggest a service Wise. They have banks in both countries so you don’t have to go through the Brazil central Bank. I haven’t use them. First when you get wire instructions they are different from what most need to be on a wire. My mistake was not putting the additional information they gave me. It got tie up for over a month but I was lucky since it was to a big company Toyota. Then before they would clear it they wanted al forms of documents where the money came from. It was from my home sale but of course I didn’t bring these documents with me. So eventually we just went to the ATM after we recalled the wire only took 3 days. Remember if you go direct Bank to Bank you will loose a higher percentage of the current conversation. I used a debit card that repays most of  the ATM fees and got the daily conversation rate. The trick for getting large amounts out of ATM is you can repeat 1000 over and over. The only limitation is what your Bank allows but you can call them to raise the limit for that day.Hope this helps

Viviexpat wrote:

Thank you Abthree and Texanbrazil.

I am looking for homes on OLX.com .br and wanted to ask you if you or anyone have experience with this site to buy a property? I'm seeing lots of posts of homes that appear to be undervalued and sold by owner. I'm trying to avoid getting scammed what do you guys recommend when wanting to work directly with the owner but also to not fall victim of scammers? Do I need to hire a lawyer and a real estate agent if I want to buy a home directly from the owner? Is it best to stay all altogether and just buy a property that is being sold by a real estate company?

Thank you all so

We have rental properties in Brazil. I am looking for another apartment now.  I have found OLX to have little value in finding actual places for sale. OLX seems to be more of a place for Realtors to show off advertising for themselves and their businesses getting you into their office. Most of the time, the offering is either very old, maybe years old, or was never really for sale in the first place.  I recently spent two months around Santos looking at lots of places and only one of the listings I had found on OLX was actually real and for sale, I agree, OLX is fun and is a great place to shop for locations, neighborhoods, and even buildings, but I have not found OLX useful to search for actual places for sale.

Regarding lawyers in Brazil, when I stopped being a tourist and decided to be a resident, I found a guy who can help us with almost anything and when he can't, he gets us the perfect help. From immigration, my driver's license, to purchasing property, it's a huge help and relief.

Hi Everyone,
I hope you are all well. After looking around for information I was lucky to find this forum with excellent information. Many of the questions I had have been already addressed by some of you and I am very thankful for such valuable information. Nevertheless, every case is somehow different and I would like to share with you mine and get some of your great feedback on it. My wife (Brazilian) and I (American) hope to have a house in Brazil. She is a college professor there, is well established and has a very good relationship with her bank. We are thinking about partially financing the house through her bank, but a big proportion of the money needs to be transferred from my US bank. My questions are the following: can money (roughly 500k R$) from my US bank be wired directly to the mortgage account that will be established by my wife's bank for the financing, without going through my her personal checking account? In other words, can the money from the US be wired as down-payment? And, can money be wired from here to a mortgage account, in case we need to finance the house through a full mortgage before been able to do any wire?
Many thanks for your help.

06/28/21
Welcome, Huju,

There should be no problem with what you want to do.  Discuss the transfer with the people at your wife's bank at the same time you discuss your plans for the mortgage account, and they should be able to handle all of the formalities for you without a hitch.

Hey everybody !

So I signed the contract with my lawyer and the agency. And gonna make the down payment (1/3rd) up front with it all. I’m using Money Corp to send the money since they’re there most secure and insured by US banks. Has anybody used them before?
So steps are going by ! I’ll keep you all posted how it’s going on myside for those who are curious.

Thanks !

I haven’t heard of Money Corp most people here use Wise because they keep the exchange rate and just charge flat fee. So you may loose a percentage of the exchange with Money Corp. Also if the go through the central bank of Brazil could be held up. Also the amount you are sending could trigger a Tax on your wife. Since anything over 50,000 Reals has the bank report to the Brazil Government. Also before they release the money they may want to see documents where it came from. These are things maybe your banker can answer but remember Brazil is very bureaucratic.

Money Corp is registered with BR Central Bank and able to business in BR.
Do not know what their "spot" rates are based on, but if you are comfortable with Money Corp. it may fit you.

Ya money Corp is the most secure and best relationship with the central bank. Wise is 250k brl limit and no relationship with central bank so who knows how long it’ll be paused there. What’s great about money corp my representative is also helping with paper work to make sure the sellers side is secure. Just another nice safety net.

Hi Everyone; I hope you are well. First of all many thanks for your previous advice.  My wife (Brazilian) and I decided to buy a house in Brazil, which will get paid through a mortgage under her name; we just got married and I will not be in the mortgage, but I will be in the house documents as a co-owner. She is getting the mortgage from the Bank of Brazil. In the long run the idea is to sell a property we have in the US to finalize the payments of the house, but we want to wait a couple of years for this move.
Long story short, the mortgage will be paid partly by me using my Canada/USA bank account. Do you know what is the best way of transfering my monthly share? Can I pay directly into the mortgage even though I am not part of it? If this is not possible, making monthly  transfers to her account in Brazil will force her (us) to pay taxes on those transfers? Any advice you can give us on this?
Thanks a lot again!

07/19/21

HuJu,

This is definitely something to discuss with your wife's bank manager at BB.  You should be clear with them that you want a way to transfer the mortgage payments from your (presumably already taxed) US funds without creating an income tax liability for your wife.  They should be able to suggest a solution.

The problem with the direct transfer approach you suggest it that you'll be trying to hit a moving target every month, trying to pay a fixed Real liability with dollars at a constantly changing exchange rate.

HuJu wrote:

Hi Everyone; I hope you are well. First of all many thanks for your previous advice.  My wife (Brazilian) and I decided to buy a house in Brazil, which will get paid through a mortgage under her name; we just got married and I will not be in the mortgage, but I will be in the house documents as a co-owner. She is getting the mortgage from the Bank of Brazil. In the long run the idea is to sell a property we have in the US to finalize the payments of the house, but we want to wait a couple of years for this move.
Long story short, the mortgage will be paid partly by me using my Canada/USA bank account. Do you know what is the best way of transfering my monthly share? Can I pay directly into the mortgage even though I am not part of it? If this is not possible, making monthly  transfers to her account in Brazil will force her (us) to pay taxes on those transfers? Any advice you can give us on this?
Thanks a lot again!

_________
We use an auto-pay system from Santader for our apartment mortgage in Brazil.  When the exchange rates are good, we feed that bank account from the USA.  Remember, keep tax records from the USA because Brazil will want to know if your money has already been taxed or not.
We have used wire transfers, Zoom, Western Union, etc. and still find Wise to be the best, for us.

05/18/22  Looking for any help or suggestions you may have. My wife and I are trying to buy an apartment in Brazil and are trying to wire the money to the seller’s bank account.

Does anyone know how long the typically takes? We sent the money almost 3 weeks ago and the money has not arrived to the seller.

Sellers bank is Bradesco and we are using JP Morgan as in intermediary to do the Fedwire.

Any experience or recommendations are welcome as our seller is starting to get upset.

Dan

- @danielmurphy2035

@danielmurphy2035 Yeah, if you're buying property there, you should have a bank account.  It makes things so much easier.  Then you can simply use Wise to transfer dollars to reals then pay from your brasilian bank account.

@rraypo Yep, Wise is the way to go.  Have been using them for years.  They are fast, reliable and I've found to be the least expensive way to transfer $$$.

05/31/22 Ok, we recalled the transfers. Thinking about working with a currency exchange bank and also exploring opening a bank account.

- @danielmurphy2035

We are thinking of opening an account with Banco Rendimendo. Looks like they allow non-residence to open accounts and we can do a large transfer. Problem with Wise is the limits per transfer.

- @danielmurphy2035