禁漫天堂

Yes, my accountant says you have to AND that Colombia doesn`t recognize the tax benefit that the US does, so these are taxable. I`ve spoken to others who have had advisors say that no, these are part of retirement, etc..I don`t know the correct answer but I have heard more than one accountant say yes they are taxable.

@jmckenna71the correct answer is to play ignorante and keep your mouth shut and be prepared to leave Colombia at a moments notice..dont buy anything and dont marry anyone unless it is 100% clear she goes to the new country of your choice with you. Or better yet, just come 180 days a year or less and make somewhere else your home base.

They are already trying to make expats pay 5% of their income to EPS when you are renewing a visa should you chose to go on EPS. This is not in the Cancilllerias rules or mandate.. it is in minisalud and other departments jurisdiction Who knows when they will want to see " declaraci贸n de rentas" and start passing salary info. On to DIAN ( even though DIAN can get all the info. From the CRS system)

The formula to.pay聽 is 40% of your salary times 12.5%.

Dont know why they just go out and say 5%.

I had it confirmed by 2 high powered lawyers that this is legal and within the right of the cancilleria to ask...doesnt matter if the money was earned outside the country.

One of the lawyers confirmed to.me that he had other clients whose Visa appplications were rejected based on not paying enough EPS based on their visa stated income.

So the sure way to not have problems, and maybe get a visa, is go on that expensive emergency medical/ relocaci贸n聽 insurance they are asking for.

Then there is a risk that when you go to renew, or apply for an " R" visa, they will want evidence you paid for the emergency medical insurance the entire visa period. Or, if you have been on EPS, they will want the planillas proving you paid the right amount of聽 eps based on your income.

For now, this only applies to Visas where you show your retirement income

For Marraige ( conguye) visas , the issue wont come up, ( at least not yet) because they dont ask for income, and marraige is family unification聽 聽a fundamental human right, per the UN charter Colombia signed.

Actually聽 the best solution is just come to Colombia on vacation, or less than 183 days a year, and lookk for some other place to settle.

Ohh on a side note..per the new resolution...you are not allowed to be on EPS for Pensionada Visas. It explicitely states that on the Canciller铆a web site..although this only seems to apply for pensionada visas.

I guess they dont want old people coming here mooching off of the EPS system, and if you were "grandfathered " in by the old rules, the want to be sure you are paying your fair share...5% of your income, as stated on your visa application

Another thing is , you cant be on Medecina Prepagada without being.on EPS and you cant be on EPS without a cedula/Visa.

Which is really strange, since I got on Medicina Prepagada with just a passport 10 or 11 yesrs ago.

So as far Colombia goes SNAFU..except its getting even worse.

On the positive.side, one of the high powered lawyers told me he thinks things are gooing to get better, because聽 聽he doest think it can get any worse LOL

@jmckenna71 Hmm, The accountant I work with says they don't tax these, and in their guarantee, they say that if anything is inaccurately filed because of their mistake, they will cover any penalties and interests. Sounds like nobody knows then lol, but hopefully that guarantee means something and others who have filed with accountants that say it isn't taxable have a similar guarantee.

@nico peligro

Well if they tax 5% of income for EPS then we will be leaving...I`ve been here since 2011 and have a R visa due to Colombian children...I can`t believe they would impose such a tax, but in this country anything is possible....I may have to fly to Quito then cross the border in Ipiales without getting stamped, all this to avoid increasingly punitive taxes...geez, what a mess.

@nico peligro I need to find where I read this again, but I could have sworn it's 5% but with a cap. The lawyer I had enroll聽 me in EPS told me that we can enroll as independents and just pay the minimum. He's an expat as well but practices law in Colombia, so hopefully that's true. The firm that handles all my visa stuff now also said the same, but I have a marriage visa, not a retirement visa. As for keeping our mouths shut when it comes to taxes, yeah, sounds nice but also scary lol. Most people don't end up paying anything anyway, even if they're making 6 figures, so for now it's not that bad...that is until next year once the tax reform laws are applied.

@uknwn0424 LOL good luck trying to collect off of him if DIAN does an audit and you have to pay...

At this time , it is highly unlikely DIAN is going to audit an epat, because they are lazy, just like the Cancilleria, and it is too much work, and they would spend too much time in court, trying to sieze your house or bank accounts,etc.,聽 if you are one of those brave enough, or rich聽 to have assets in Colombia that can be embargoed and lost, without being any skin off your back.

@uknwn0424 If your talking about an American Expat out of Medellin, he doesnt know...and hes wrong..I got it from 3 sources. Hes a nice guy聽 but gave me a lot of information that was dubious in the past. Also, I dont think he is a lawyer, and definitely not registerred as one in Colombia.

If you are referring to another expat of European origin, yes, he is registered in Colombia, and he is one of the ones I am talking about in my previous post and below. ( call him Lawyer "A")

Chances are they wont even聽 ask for Planillas, and if they do, they might not look at how much you pay. One of the highly recommended lawyers聽 ( Lawyer"A") thought it was worth the risk applying again with EPS, and Medicina Prepagada. They聽 聽could聽 came back and say "no" you cant use that you are not supposed to be on EPS besides you are not paying enough. He thought just providing them the Planillas would be enough to satisfy them, he didnt think they usually looked at the amount, and we would provide this聽 along with a letter saying that聽 even though I am on a tourist visa now, I have been living in Colombia for years, and have always had EPS ( a lie) and Medicina prepagada (the truth). He figured in his opinion, that would be 90% secure聽 (in his opinion)

However, if they did say no" , I could come back to them with the expensive medical insurance. However, I am thinking they could just reject my application because I am screwing around with the system. He said, to be 100% sure , dont mention EPS or Medicina prepagada , and just get the fancy health Insurance.

The other lawyer (call him Lawyer "B" ), said dont even go there. They often聽 require you聽 Planillas when you re-apply for a rentista, pensionada , digital nomad or accumulated time "R" visa, if you are using your EPS and Medicina Prepagada聽 as proof of healthcare, and the specific reason they do, is to see if you are paying your EPS based on income.

Note that Lawyer "B" is a much larger law firm with more experience with Visas.

He has also had clients rejected because they did not pay enough EPS and refused to back pay the required amounts to get the Planillas updated.

Pays your money , you takes your chances.You can provide the bare minimum EPS certificate . or even Medicina Prepagada, without planillas,and you might get away with it.-just be chance- not by design.

Also, note that the Cancilleria cant force you to pay your share of EPS, or force you to go off of EPS and Medicina Prepagada. This is the jurisdiction of Mini-Salud and the discretion of your EPS / Medicina Prepagada provider. They (the Cancilleria) can, however, refuse your visa on this basis, but hopefully would give you the option to rectify it.

However there is a slight chance thayt your EPS/ prepagad provider would make it difficult for you if you got sick or had an accident, without a current Cedula. But if you had been paying into them for years, that聽 would be difficult on their part

@nico peligro Well it's Langon Law, so it's not just an individual. I assume that since they're a firm, they have insurance for those kinds of things, and given that they market themselves to expats and have some visibility, they wouldn't want their accountants doing things they can't defend. Then again, that could be wishful thinking on my part lol. I don't know if there's a HRBlock or TurboTax equivalent in Colombia that provides a similar guarantee.

Could they seize a U.S. bank account or home? Would the U.S even help disclose your accounts? I heard the U.S expects other countries to report assets to them, but unless there's an agreement, they don't really do the same and FBAR is only one-way.

@jmckenna71 you dont have to worry if you ar e on an "R" visa-at least not yet.

Like I said, marriage and family visa are human right, payment of EPS payment is not in the Cancilerias jurisdiction, and they dont ask for any health or financial information on it when renewing a conyugal "R" visa

But you never know what will happen in the future. But I doubt the Cancilleria will refuse your conjuge "R" visa renewal base on EPS payments, and I think Mini-salud is too lazy to chase things down, and the EPS people just want your money-they dont care how much, and same with Medicina Prepagada-they have a fixed rate for everyone.

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@nico peligro Thanks for the info, I've still got two years on my聽 visa, and hopefully won't need another after it's up because I'd really prefer living somewhere else for 6 months or live in the U.S. As for the lawyer who did my EPS, he's based out of Bogota and I'm pretty sure he included his NIT and practice registration (or whatever it is they use to prove you're a lawyer here) in the contract, so not Lawyer A or Lawyer B.

@uknwn0424 wellI hope your right, because thats "Lawyer B" and聽 they promised to fight for me with "tutelas" and other means if the cancilleria tries to screw me around on my next visa application, like they (the cancileria ) did on my last application.

And this woud be incuded in the cost of service.

I am quite impressed with them actually.

But still, this is not a big of a commitment as guarenteeing to pay an unfavourabe ruling by DIAN.

Also, another note. Both lawyers told me the Cancilleria cant play that trick on you and say you have breached the 90 day limit. As long as you get the documents into the system before the 90 day expiry date , its in their hands, and they have to process it.

However, there was a time their stupid paltform was down for 3 or 4 months. But even that can be argued aganst legally.

Anyway, we are off the subject. The thread is not on Visas.

I just wanted to make the point that if the Cancilleria is now checking on EPS legal requirements, they could also ask you to at least produce a declaraci贸n de renta, if you have had a previous visa.

@nico peligro Oh, so "Lawyer B" is Langon. Nice, glad to hear you're impressed with them. Interesting that they said if they accept the minimum it's because of chance and not design because that's what I used to renew my visa. I guess it's because of what you've said above about the marriage visa above. Anyway, per the tax stuff, hopefully, they are true to their word if for some reason DIAN comes a knocking. What I imagine is they'd fight it to get it reduced or on a payment plan or something...idk lol.

@uknwn0424 By "they"I asume you mean DIAN.

No, they cant sieze US bank accounts, and IRA doesnt have time to聽 impossible,but if your bank in the US has branches in Colombia..that could theoretically be an issue. (has happened on VERY RARE ccasions to US citizens with assets in Canada in banks that have branches in the US)

But yes, all your tax and banking information is available to a 100 differnt countries聽 through the CRS system.

So, theoretically, if DIAN was astute and ambitious聽 enough, they could get your bank and tax information in the US, and determine if you were under-paying taxes in Colombia.

If it was determined that you were, they could make a claim against you, and if you have houses or bank accounts in Colombia, put an embargo (liens)聽 on the house or business and deduct the amount missin out of your bank accounts..but the law says, only the part you have in excess of 30 or 40 salarios minimos (cant remeber exact figure right now).

But dont worry, firstly DIAN is too and inept and lazy and it is too complicated to go after foreigners, and would probably require a court order.

But still better to not have聽 significant assets in Colombia

@nico peligro I don't have any assets in Colombia, thankfully. Only thing I have is a car.聽 I considered buying a house/apartment to rent out or put on AirBnb, but it kind of doesn't seem worth it given that the Peso is almost always falling. Seems like I would just break even if I rent it out and in 5 years the peso drops a bunch. Other smaller things I'd probably put in my wife's name.

Oh, when I said "Anyway, per the tax stuff, hopefully, they are true to their word if for some reason DIAN comes a knocking." I was referring to Langon and the guarantee in their service.

@nico peligroThanks for the detailed explanation.

Question if you have a retirement visa then you dont have to pay for EPS?

@jmckenna71 By tax benefit do you mean the deferment on contributions? That seems pretty wild because if you were to assume that someone was going to retire here, then you'd essentially be taxing them twice: once on the contributions and once on the payout. Maybe you can treat the sum of your contributions as the cost basis, then that would take care of the double taxation and your 401k essentially turns into an investment account, but seems like that could be less money for the DIAN in the long run because it'd be subject to long-term capital gains tax, instead of a salary income, which is taxable up to 40% depending on the payouts.

@uknwn0424

I know it is crazy and it is hard to get a straight answer out of any accountant, but I've had more than one accountant tell me that Colombia doesn't accept tax deferred accounts and treat them all as taxable traditional investment accounts. Same goes for college accounts or any other accounts that reduce taxable income in the states but not here...

I posted this in the the other chat we have 2 simultaneous chats on the same site

but from Langon site also the German lawyer who in my opinion is the best told me this 5 years ago

thats why i split time somewhere else

Langons website #2

Option 2: File and Pay Based on 鈥淐olombian-Only鈥� Activity

As explained in our Filing Personal Taxes in Colombia series, some local accountants interpret local rules as allowing foreign tax payers the opportunity to calculate obligations based only on assets and income located/sourced in Colombia. In theory, this strategy should decrease any payment obligations for many foreigners given that most don鈥檛 have any significant assets located in Colombia nor earn any significant income in Colombia.

However, it should be noted that our Firm does not recommend this strategy. First, we interpret the rules as requiring tax payers to report assets and income on a worldwide basis. This means that if you were ever audited, you may be subject to local penalties and fees assessed by the DIAN, the local tax authority. Second, governments are now sharing a great deal of tax information via international tax treaties. This increases the chances that, at some point, any violations will be identified by the DIAN.

@lunamick

The latest rules say you cant be on EPS..on Pensionada visa..unless there is some type of "bilateral " agreement. I dont know which countries have these agreements. Maybe anyone that lets Colombiana on vidsas use their social services system, but there has to be an agreement. But EPS is definitely not a requirement

So definitely not mandatory, when applying for a pensionada visa the first tiem. But the fancy emergency medical repatriation is required. And if you cwanted to convert to an "R" visa in 3 years, they might want to see proof you paid for all 3 years.

Demostrar que cuenta con cubrimiento de salud en Colombia, o con p贸liza de salud con cobertura en el territorio nacional contra todo riesgo en caso de accidente, enfermedad, maternidad, invalidez, hospitalizaci贸n, muerte o repatriaci贸n, por el tiempo previsto para su permanencia en el pa铆s.

If you are renewing your visa and already have EPS, with medicina prepagada, you might try going with that, like I did, but they might go back and ask you to provide all your planillas for the past 6 or 12 monts, proing you paid EPS based on your visa stated income-like they did to me and other people.

Vigencia: Esta visa tendr谩 una vigencia de hasta tres (3) a帽os y no permite trabajar en territorio nacional. Est谩 visa no le permitir谩 a su titular afiliarse al Sistema de Seguridad Social colombiano, salvo lo dispuesto en acuerdos bilaterales o multilaterales en la materia.

聽 聽 For those of y'all that have filed a "declaracion de renta before", do y'all report your 401k as an asset in formulario 160. I'm not retired, so I don't get payouts and don't have access to my 401k without having to pay penalties, so was curious about how it's treated.
聽 聽

聽 聽 -@uknwn0424

NO.聽 You do NOT declare your 401k as an asset.聽 I went directly to the DIAN and asked about it.聽 It is considered a pension and you do NOT declare it....聽 聽I'm in the same boat as you.聽 I am not retired and an not getting payouts.

Assets here are called Patrimony and patrimony is taxed if over a certain amount.聽 But per my discussion directly with DIAN, not a lawyer or accountant, they said 401k is not considered in Patrimony.

It may change once you have access to the funds and start withdrawing.

@nico peligroI cancelled my Eps way to expensive for most stuff, I have a very good emergency travel insurance,I usually go back to US every 3 months for a quick visit, so i have US medical insurance, When i renew i am hoping they accept a good traveler insurance by what i am reading. But it is always a crap shoot here

@lunamick聽 Sounds like you will be ok. when applying for a visa,

They might want additional repatriation insurance, you could probably get this as an adder to your policy.

The most impotant thing is to apply 3 months before you are due to leave Colombia, so you have time to address their "out of the blue" needs.

Also, i would suggest using a聽 reputable lawyer like the Langon Group or Chris Moeller, rather than an agency, as they will at least fight for you.

Other alternative is to do it your self from the US if you have聽 agood raport with the local consulate, butas pointed out by others, The Cancileria platform for down loading documents is really quirky , and you have to allow similar time 1, or 2 months聽 minimum, that you cant travel outside the US and should be available for an interview at your local consulate.

I assume you would be applying for a Pensionada or Rentista Visa

Per the cancilleria website for a variety of M visas:

Demonstrate that you have health coverage in Colombia OR travel insurance (to put it succintly)

Demostrar que cuenta con cubrimiento de salud en Colombia, o con p贸liza de salud con cobertura en el territorio nacional contra todo riesgo en caso de accidente, enfermedad, maternidad, invalidez, hospitalizaci贸n, muerte o repatriaci贸n, por el tiempo previsto para su permanencia en el pa铆s.

@nico peligro

What do you make of Sura saying on their website that you have to be affiliated and active in an EPS聽 in order to buy prepagada "Plan Clasico"?

Estar afiliado y activo en una EPS del R茅gimen contributivo de Salud. En cualquier momento, SURA podr谩 solicitarte la evidencia de tu afiliaci贸n para dar cumplimiento a la ley ya que, en caso de no estar afiliado, se termina autom谩ticamente el seguro

But then in an article updated in July of 2023 on Medellin Guru titled Travel Insurance: Meets the Health Insurance Requirement for

Colombia Visas 鈥� 2023 Update, the author says,

Also, EPS requires a cedula and EPS cannot be used for travel. Private health insurance in Colombia can be obtained with a passport or cedula and can be used to travel.

@Mr. Barley dont know havent checked out the details of the sura policy..sounds like they are talking about medicina prepagada and not energency medical insurance

Sounds catch 22

Maybe they have other.policies that dont get you in a mess breaking migrations / cancillerias rules.

I think it is pretty hard to get on EPS without having a cedula, espescially if you are starting from scratch.

I did it once with an expired cedula but with salvoconductos, but itxwas a hassle.

Further to my post medicina prepagada and emergency medical /repatriation policy would be 2 different policies

@nico peligro

He said, to be 100% sure , dont mention EPS or Medicina prepagada , and just get the fancy health Insurance.

I am not taking this news from Alan and Christoph as necessarily bad news.

Before my assumption was that after the initial visa application I would be required to have EPS and supplement it with travel insurance.

Now it sounds like I can use exclusively plan AC 60 @$950 approximately per year or possibly a private health policy from a Colombian insurance company. Of course, I probably wouldn't want that private health insurance policy if it requires that I be enrolled in EPS.

Do they still check your prior 12 months to see if you kept聽 paying insurance?

I had heard that

I have a 3 year that doesnt expire until 25

@lunamick As far as EPS, it happened to me. First time after 6 previous visas.Has happpened to others. Cant say it will happen to others in the future. Dont know what will happen in 2025.

In my case , they asked for the 6 months wirth last EPS planillas within 3 hours, and when I didnt produce them, upped it to 12 months.

If you have other health insurance that fits the Bill, I would not mention EPS.

@Mr. BarleyApparently Sura has a program that is not Medicina Prepagada , you can get without a cedula or visa,fits the bill as far as Visa application is concerned, and can be cancelled if you dont get the visa.

Havent confirmed these details yet, and font know what tge cost is.

I Imagine at my age聽 67, it would be quite expensive.

Quite a shame, because I have been vested in Medicina Prepagada for 11 years, have spent probably 60 to 80聽 聽mi暮lion pesos on it and hardly have used it. I domt want to quit abd lose my " seniority"

I wasnt on EPS when I got it, only been on EPS because in the past it was requured for a visa, and was only briefly paying it, and only use it once for聽 a lousy GP visit and maybe 50 mil worth if drugs.I am still paying 105 mil a month for EPS.

The whole visa thing has become a gigantic rip off.

@Mr. BarleyApparently Sura has a program that is not Medicina Prepagada , you can get without a cedula or visa,fits the bill as far as Visa application is concerned, and can be cancelled if you dont get the visa.

If they do, they don't advertise it, and they certainly didn't offer it to The first Book of Jym (influencer).