½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

Hi James57 and welcome to ½ûÂþÌìÌÃ!

Hope that you will soon get different point of views from other members.

Harmonie.

James,
I am right there with you in regards to the North American outlook. I have been looking at Uruguay for about a year and so far all sounds good. I hope to make the move within the next year.
Please let me know how it's going on your decision.
J.B.

Well gentlemen, you've been singing my song. I'm going to invite my wonderful wife into this blog, so she can read posts like yours, so as to validate my same position and therefore I won't appear to her as the extremist or alarmist that many sheople in the States have suggested.

As to why I'm investigating UY as a potential new place to live? This is going to sound peculiar coming from an American, but, aside from the stressors James mentioned, I am in search of freedom.  Ironically most who live in the states share a deep conviction that nowhere but in America will one have freedom...period.
So secondly, it is this mindset I wish to remove myself from, since it is absolutely insideous among citizens.

gMantis

Hi!

We moved here in September 2011  from Nova Scotia, Canada and are happy with our decision.
It is not the cheapest choice in Latin America,  we are spending about $1500 US per month on food, gas, house expenses including water, electricity, medical insurance, car insurance etc. We own our house ( no mortgages here for foreigners so need to pay cash) so have not included rent. You could expect at least $500 more  per month for this, I know of people paying up to  $2000 per month.  We are not big spenders and only eat out occasionally.

We do not worry about our safety and find the local people very kind and friendly. Uruguay is a great choice if you have pensions etc. from North America. You need to show about $1500 monthly income now for residency ( per couple) although $500 is still indicated on some sites. We have our temporary cedulas and hope to get permanent residency in about a year.

I am not sure what you mean in terms of  freedom. Uruguay is a socialist country, most things are highly regulated here including wages. If you are unhappy with Obama you will be even more unhappy with the government here. Taxes are high, 22% sales tax, 60% import duties, new taxes on income and services provided for this money are modest. Most roads outside of Montevideo are gravel and not well maintained with few street lights.

But come down and visit, you will like what you see!

Janet

Hello to everybody! Well, our case is different, We left Caracas, Venezuela, because we lived in complete fear of being kidnapped, shot, murdered, etc, etc. My kids, (youngest is 15 years old) were in fear of going dancing, meeting with friends were ridiculesly coordinated with cellphones, precise places, etc. And we all got it up to here! We were looking to Mexico, because my husband has some bussiness there but it was more of the same. So, we all decided for Uruguay, where we have visited twice on vacation.
Uruguay has the most beautiful sky I have ever seen, an incredible blue and thats is why their futbol team is called the "celeste". Its air smells wonderful too, either flowers, or burning woods, or "asado", but it is very expensive, fortunately we are not spenders and we prefer to entertain ourselves at home, but power, water,food, wine (!) rent, car insurance and medical insurance, public transportation for the kids, etc, can sum up to some thousand US dollar for a family of 6.
People is generally friendly, of course you will find the inevitable moron, they are very bad drivers, and they tend to get in the middle of your way, wether walking or driving, as the good futbol defenders they are.
We feel pretty safe in here, my girls are studying in the University for free, and have many, many friends. They go to the beach, hang out, they go dancing to the wee hours... We are very happy they are this free now. But, we have been robbed many times in our house. They all say they are just kids, or gurises, but they have robbed our bikes, our laptops, our cameras, etc. They have broke into our home with the 6 of us having lunch, and we didn't even see them!!! just the noise.
Do not get me wrong, please. This is PARADISE, compared with where we are coming, but you have to be real and have your feet firmly on the ground. We did not expect this kind of crime, and sure, we were not shot, but I think it may be the beggining. Of course I am talking exclusively of Montevideo, and more properly of Carrasco. We have spend some good money now in an electric fence, bars for windows and such, so we are not expecting more break ins...
Finally, and please excuse me for the lenght of this "note". It is not easy to get in and out of Uruguay, so if you plan to travel a lot, as my husband does, be aware that Miami is 10 hours away served by American Airline and this is the only non stop flight to the US. All other flights must be done trough Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo, Lima or Santiago.
If I can be of any assistance, please just let me know!

Just a bit of the devil's advocate.

We came to Uruguay three years ago and everything was as expected but, during this time life has become so expensive that we could live in Spain for the same money, and with a better quality of life.

But, as we consider ourselves economic migrants, we are relocating to Paraguay instead, and here there are a few reasons:

soon after we moved here I lost my job in Italy because Uruguay is considered fiscal paradise and so I could not invoice my customers there.

cost of life has gone up incredibly. inflation here is in dollars, as this is a dollarized economy. the prices of houses are going up an average of 10% yearly in dollars

utilities are very expensive: between health insurance,electricity, cable, telephone, internet and taxes (that have trebled in 3 years) we spend about $900 a month

import taxes are so high that all you find is out of reach or of the lowest Chinese quality

local produce is of very low quality and expensive. Is almost impossible, for example, to find ripe tomatoes in summer, they come to around 1.10 dollars per kilo. in summer!

and I could go on

hope this instills some of the doubts I never had before moving here...

Those are all the reasons we found when we went to visit in December that we decided not to move to Uruguay. If you're thinking about moving there....do your homework and spend no less than a couple of weeks and contact expat groups to get the real scoop on the ecomomy.

chicchera wrote:

Just a bit of the devil's advocate.

We came to Uruguay three years ago and everything was as expected but, during this time life has become so expensive that we could live in Spain for the same money, and with a better quality of life.

But, as we consider ourselves economic migrants, we are relocating to Paraguay instead, and here there are a few reasons:

soon after we moved here I lost my job in Italy because Uruguay is considered fiscal paradise and so I could not invoice my customers there.

I find this quite confusing; what job are you doing that you have to invoice them from where you're sitting? We're not in the 1980s any more. Since you arrived Uruguay bowed to pressure from the USA, in order to not be gray listed, so there should be no stigma. I've never heard anything nice about trying to do business here with the meddlesome bureaucracy, so I would find little to be disillusioned about.

chicchera wrote:

cost of life has gone up incredibly. inflation here is in dollars, as this is a dollarized economy. the prices of houses are going up an average of 10% yearly in dollars

And sometimes more. However, to single out the economy you lived in is a little disingenuous, since all the currencies in the world are entering a competitive devaluation stage. According to MercoPress (1 Sep 2011) 'Bolivia, Paraguay, Dominican Republic and Uruguay reported annual food inflation rates above 10%.'

chicchera wrote:

utilities are very expensive: between health insurance,electricity, cable, telephone, internet and taxes (that have trebled in 3 years) we spend about $900 a month

I won't argue that Uruguay is cheap, but we're heavy electric consumers (clothes drier) and here are our recent costs:

medical insurance (ages 66/57): $160/month
electric: $160/month
cable: n/a, don't watch teevee
telephone: landline $17 cel n/a
internet: 3mb unlimited $46/month
taxes: account for 22% of everything you buy, so not clear how you're figuring this

Anyway, less than half what you say though cel and cable would run it up.

chicchera wrote:

import taxes are so high that all you find is out of reach or of the lowest Chinese quality

This is a common, and very valid, complaint. Selection, quality, and prices are much better in Paraguay as I understand it.

chicchera wrote:

local produce is of very low quality and expensive. Is almost impossible, for example, to find ripe tomatoes in summer, they come to around 1.10 dollars per kilo. in summer!

Produce in the férias can be disappointing (best to go early), and unless you have a good supermarket, produce is not a priority. I don't know what your tomato expectations are, but coming from Italy I suspect you're imposing your notion of how things *should* be because that's the way it is 'back home.'

Generally, we find produce excellent and ripe tomatoes available year round (not always excellent, but lettuce is: we came from Mexico, where we had to drive 45 minutes to buy a head of non-iceberg lettuce). Meat, cheese, and wine are excellent, locally produced and cheap compared to North America. Processed 'food products' - the stuff you shouldn't put in your body anyway - tend to be expensive.

chicchera wrote:

and I could go on

hope this instills some of the doubts I never had before moving here...

Definitely appreciated by those of us who don't want more wide-eyed International dreaming types blindly moving here in search of paradise.

Living in Uruguay involves a certain level of acceptance. I have observed several people NOT make it here, and when they decide to move on (or back) it's been accompanied by vociferous complaining, which essentially comes down to how Uruguay didn't meet THEIR expectations. They love the place - until they don't.

Anywhere one goes dragging expectations ('back home I could get this TV at Best Buy for HALF this price!'), one invites - no, guarantees - disappointment.

I hope you'll post about Paraguay. People I know who went there recently loaded up with all the spices and other goodies they can't buy here, but I've never heard anything nice about the climate.

it's not a matter of where one comes from: I've lived in Perú, Italy, Kenya, Israel and Syria before coming to Uruguay. I suppose that I am ready to accept that one must be flexible in his/her expectations. I am 62 years old and have lived 35 abroad.

But let's go back to expenses, 2011 data, today exchange rate:
water (we had a hidden leak for 4 months): 22.5
central heating gas: 176
electricity:126
phone & internet: 67
municipal taxes (we own the house, and it's cheap because is a very old one): 145
health insurance (62 & 61):145
medicines(through the health insurance system):71
cable:56

if you add it all it comes to 809.5, the discount courtesy of either the rate of exchange or an error

and yes, the climate in Paraguay is very hot, but electricity is about 80% cheaper than here, so you can afford air conditioners...

Howdy! I'm new to this blog. Sharing the same sentiment as many others in this conversation, my family is considering expat living.  After looking into several south american countries, Uruguay seems to have many advantages.  I have seen similar complaints about rising costs in other blogs. That being said, the cost of living in the U.S. (especially in Houston, TX) is definitely going up.  Fuel/electricity is not cheap. An average power bill for our home can run up to $400.00 per month in the summer! The increase in fuel prices have also driven up the prices of produce and dairy products. We are very laid back; the primary reason for our wanting a change is to seek out a calmer, friendlier, scenic environment compared to the rat race of Houston.  Safety and stability is our primary concern, while cost of living is also very relevant.  Any honest opinions on overall safety, security, and quality/availabiltiy of medical care are appreciated.

James, the reasons you give for leaving North America are shared by many, including me.  I used to practice law there and after several decades of trying to use the system to extract a little justice for clients, found that it just couldn't be done.  I don't believe it can be done here in Uruguay either, but somehow it doesn't seem as malignant here.  That said, I was still disappointed to find that there were no public trials here, not exactly a sign of the free country I thought it would be.  I no longer believe there are truly free countries.  Still, I feel much safer here than I had been feeling for the last decade or so in the States.  I left in early 2009, found the bureaucracy pretty oppressive, but still found that Uruguay respects property rights.  And the right to bear arms. Law enforcement seems unmotivated as far as any future assignments they may receive, to seriously harass the people. 

       Joel Skousen does an excellent online analysis of where to go when you leave the You Ess:

seeker401.wordpress.com/2011/04/03/joel-skousen-strategic-relocation-guide-to-safe-places-part-4/

If you get to around the middle of the video he specifically refers to Uruguay.  I didnÂ’t see any of this before I left, but reached pretty similar conclusions myself, pretty much by power of elimination.  I eliminated the central  American countries due to proximity to the Anglo American hegemony.

There is an ex pat web site run by a guy from Michigan who has been in South America some 7 or 8 years I think.  The site is - totaluruguay.com and should give you a bit of the flavor of life here.  This is the website for the group in Montevideo, which is the capital and where everybody tends to touch down first.  There is a brief reference there to the Atlantida group that I started.  WeÂ’re trying to get a website going that would do some different things, but it hasnÂ’t seemed to have happened yet.  ThereÂ’re also other ex pat groups in Montevideo, a group in Piriapolis, and a group in Punta del Este, where the super-rich tend to be. IÂ’ve gone a couple of times but have been highly uncomfortable there, maybe because I don't want to spend my time at cocktail parties or sitting on the beach all day.

     Just as an overview – the climate is said to be like coastal North Carolina.  Fall, spring, and summer are wonderful – though a few days in summer can be pretty oppressive.  I donÂ’t generally bother with air conditioning, though I have it for the bedroom.  I use ceiling fans.  Now for some of the negatives -There is definitely a winter, but you donÂ’t have to worry about it freezing.  It rains a lot in winter and the deciduous trees lose their leaves.  In most Uruguayan homes, the people also freeze half to death because itÂ’s a wet, bone chilling cold that seeps through the concrete walls that everything seems to be made of.  Insulation is usually not used, nor vapor barrier. Many of us ex pats – USÂ’ers, Aussies, Canadians, Germans, and others - have resolved, after freezing our butts off too long, to change the way weÂ’re doing construction.  In winter, almost every day there is some sun and temperatures often are in the 50Â’s or 60Â’s, which is more than you can say about the temperatures inside most of those houses.  People generally heat with wood stoves.  Propane is common and cheap, though, at least for use with cook stoves.  Electricity in the country is based on hydroelectric and wind.  ItÂ’s very expensive by all standards, partly because the costs are not subsidized.  Which is a big part of why IÂ’m doing wind and about to look into ways of incorporating some low tech solar into the wind system.

     This is repeatedly said to be a Third World Country, but with some surprising First  World features.  (Like an excellent jazz club in Montevideo) The roads in Uruguay are about the best in America Latina.  Even so, in smaller towns like mine, half or more of the streets are gravel or dirt roads, and the secondary roads, though paved, are riddled with chuck holes.  Consumer products here generally come, like in the States, from China, but I think are lower grade Chinese products than what gets sent there.  Sometimes whatever it is breaks before you get it home, or out of the box.  You know youÂ’re getting acclimated to the culture, when you just go ahead and use it that way anyhow.

     Unlike in other countries in the southern cone, people with European features donÂ’t stand out in a crowd.  There are no earthquakes, hurricanes, tidal waves, tsunamis, or tornados.  The really big plus: You can drink the water, breathe the air, and eat the food without being poisoned – not really something that can be said in the You Ess anymore.  Almost everyone I know here has noticed, usually within a few weeks, that they suddenly feel better physically.  As in LOTS better. Looking and feeling LOTS younger.  More energy. Chronic health problems disappeared!   ItÂ’s not just me.  One guy came with brittle diabetes so bad that doctors in the You Ess were going to amputate his blackening legs.  After a year of national health care and the tendency of doctors here to use alternative, homeopathic, and herbal medicine along with the usual, the guy is now walking every day on the beach, only needing to use a cane on occasion.  No doubt weÂ’re just seeing what happens when everything you eat is fresh and relatively unsprayed, the meat is grass-fed, almost nothing is gmo, and there are no nuke plants in the country.

Paraguay is starting to sound a little tempting, mainly because it's hot and energy and real estate costs low, if I'm reading correctly.  As an interim solution, because going into this fourth winter in Uruguay is already taking a toll on me, I've thought of moving up near the Brazilian border where it's supposed to average some 5 degrees warmer, I'm told.  I'd like to hear from folks who're doing organic farming here.  I found a farm away from a lot of the apparently illegaly grown gmo soy and heavily sprayed vineyards, but it's still awfully cold there, and the clay soil, though potentially fertile and not contaminated, is like concrete when you try to plant anything, or even dig posts for a decent fence. Backbreaking! Plus I wonder how many times you have to move to stay a few jumps ahead of Monsanto.

Well, this certainly is educational, as we've only been looking at Uruguay for two weeks.  We were in Chile when the idea came up that we should visit Uruguay, but it was too late to change tickets, itinerary, etc.  We're going to come there, but the schedule is not set.  Why leaving?  Because this is not the country that I once knew. Collapsing economy, intrusive government, decaying society, threats of violence and internment. We're figuring out our timeline so we can get on the move.

SageN Socks,

You are preaching to the choir in regards to getting out. I just wish I would have started the process earlier.

J.B.

Hi I am a new member.  Disappointed to hear that everything is so expensive in Uruguay.  Does anyone know anything about Mendoza, Argentina?  How is the crime in Paraguay?  I am bilingual in english and spanish.
Renee in Florida

Yes, we are started on our moving process, and after so many years, there is a lot to get rid of. In regard to the higher cost of Uruguay, I would also expect greater opportunities to use our experience to create some income. In a vibrant economy, I would expect many work niches would be available for development. That kind of growth generates other needs, to be filled by qualified people. It's helpful to have an exploratory mindset when figuring out how to make a living in that environment or any.

James, any further thoughts about getting out?  I think of southern Ontario as being closely related to Detroit and Buffalo, so am greatly concerned for my friends in that region. As for us, we seem to be making good headway on closing out our affairs here and look forward to business in UY.

I do not mean to put a damper on your ideas but from what I have heard here, there is little opportunity to develop new businesses here even if you are fluent in Spanish.
Most ambitious young Uruguayans dream of leaving for more opportunities. The culture is known to be resistant to change and people seem content with what they have.
I personally know a few folk who have tried modest businesses and have a really tough time making any money at all and these are Uruguayan and Brazilian.  People are very thrifty and only buy what they need.
Others talk about Uruguay being one of the hardest places to start a business due to bureaucracy, preference of people to use friends or family, lack of credit, high taxes etc. Things are done very differently here, values and customs are different and you cannot use North American ideas and expect things to go as planned.

In order to gain residency, you need to show you can support yourself unless you are coming as a worker. Although in theory you need to show only $500US per month, our lawyer said they now expect $1500US per month for a couple and prefer stable sources such as Government pensions. I personally know folk whose income has been questioned and they are being asked to prove a  permanent monthly income source.

Janet