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This may help"

No one would believe me, but my eyes don't lie.

The dog was standing on the guy's lap, with
front legs on the handlebars.   The guy was texting...

Much the same with two parents (both texting)
and two children.  The little boy was holding the bars
but too small to see anything.

..but having been here, you probably saw much the same...

..so do you (really) think you need a car..?   

Vietnam does actually have set of reasonable road rules, but  millions don't follow them and the police don't enforce them [unless they need some extra money for a good office party].

Yes i have seen similar and worse  to what Bazza describes ,
And just Steered around them ( slowly hehe )  and continued on my way Lol

I dont know  what to "really" think , hence my question here  today 

But i guess  the  replies will really  depend as much on drivers confidence in themselves , than  anything else

I think I should have mentioned the (many) fatals I have
seen here.   Too many.

  Yes, they do it, but don't escape the consequences.

This is definitely not the place to be if you're prone to road rage. I've learned to just slow down. Keeping my road rage in check is a daily struggle

" Keeping my road rage in check is a daily struggle  " 



Same here, but a good lesson to learn...   

Just remember that cars here cost more than in Thailand... and it seems can't install metal offroad bumper legally..... :p that said I just don't care..

There are more motorbikes here than Thailand, many who ride bikes have no understanding of how to read the traffic. Driving a car here is the safer option and more pleasant. Just take your time, traffic is slower here than Thailand, but the stupidity much greater.

" Just take your time, traffic is slower here than Thailand,
but the stupidity much greater."     

   (..best advice I've read here... )

    The Truth Hurts.    Big Time!

Thank you for the  replies  guys

At the moment im thinking  of  possibly Da Nang  as a start base  , i like to be near the ocean with my dog etc

" but the stupidty much greater "  etc  -- good  summary  re the driving situation there v Thailand -- duly noted

And  Are  the cars  More  expensive  re Thailand  ? , i havent done a lot of research ( yet) , but the  few comparsions  i did i thought was  that Vietnam  was similar to slightly cheaper than Thailand 😢

Are  Audis Q5/3 s  sold  in  Vietnam ( and available  used  etc ) ??


Whats  a good search  site/ app  (with eng ideally  😊)  for  used  Suvs  - audi / bmw/ merc  or similar  quality  -

Many here drive without a licence...that is ok until something goes wrong and the cops get involved
I assume you have a Uk car drivers licence in which case you can arrange to have it converted to a Vietnamese car licence...
I have a Vietnamese car licence ,arranged in Hcmc,easily done and took about 10 days but needed someone who spoke the lingo....don,t know if it can be arranged in Da Nang
I agree with the previous comments ,so many on the road have never seen or heard the words "common sense"...you have to drive slowly!

MikaQ5 wrote:

Thank you for the  replies  guys

At the moment im thinking  of  possibly Da Nang  as a start base  , i like to be near the ocean with my dog etc

" but the stupidty much greater "  etc  -- good  summary  re the driving situation there v Thailand -- duly noted

And  Are  the cars  More  expensive  re Thailand  ? , i havent done a lot of research ( yet) , but the  few comparsions  i did i thought was  that Vietnam  was similar to slightly cheaper than Thailand 😢

Are  Audis Q5/3 s  sold  in  Vietnam ( and available  used  etc ) ??


Whats  a good search  site/ app  (with eng ideally  😊)  for  used  Suvs  - audi / bmw/ merc  or similar  quality  -

Some sites...Carmundi, Mua Ban(buy and sell) Cho Tot. You will need to write xe hoi or xe oto in the search. Best if you get a local to help you.

New cars are more expensive than in Thailand, I just bought Ford ranger 2.2 4x4 XLT and with that money could have got top of the line 3.2 wildtrak from Thailand..  same goes to accessories... but carmundi is good place to look prices

Zepo wrote:

This is definitely not the place to be if you're prone to road rage. I've learned to just slow down. Keeping my road rage in check is a daily struggle

hahaha   that includes walking along the streets Road Rage.

MikaQ5 wrote:

I ...  have some experience of driving in Asia , (and it was  nothing like the horror stories i had  heard before i first drove )

I have visited about half the Asian countries and, beyond climate and jungle, I find there are more differences than similarities. Thai auto drivers generally seem very law-abiding (yes excluding van drivers, reckless youth, etc). Almost like Singapore. Maybe due to better enforcement, but there is also a considerateness of Thai people that is realized when seeing them in orderly bus queues 70 people long at Victory Monument.

In Vietnam, there is no concept of queues, and motorbike riders do what they want as there is minimal moving vehicle traffic enforcement. The horror stories you heard were from countries like this and Indonesia. Cars in the city usually aren't driven dangerously, but the motorbikes take such risks that the cars must creep along out of fear of collision. Extreme defensive driving.

I have never driven a car in Vietnam, live in Saigon, but would consider driving only if I lived in a smaller place like Da Nang where the main roads are wide and uncongested. Riding a motorbike in the rain with a passenger while carrying bags of groceries is not fun.

You're 4 times more likely to be killed as a result of a traffic accident in the countryside than you are within the 2 major metropolitan areas.  I think that's due to the lack of education, as well as lack of proper medical treatment being available.

Taking the train is an option, but the railroad ends/begins in Saigon, which means no Vung Tu or Can Tho.  Mu Nei/Phan Tiet, Nha Trang could be visited over a weekend.  Even Quy Nhon would be an option.  The beaches there are pretty good by any standard, but spectacular for Vietnam.  Not many tourists make their way there, which is a bonus in my book.

Here's a link to the official train schedule:



The busing system is horrible, but cheap and fairly reliable.

Note:  The express trains bypass Quy Nhon. You must  get off at Dieu Tri and then catch a taxi or xe om (motorbike taxi) 15kms into town.  There is also a local Nha Trang to Quy Nhon train, which goes right into Quy Nhon, runs once a day each way and takes six hours. It is comfortable, light meals and drinks are available on the train.

Went tooling around on the motorbike this morning. Very nice, 0 traffic. If only Tet lasted all year

Zep--

Public transport doesnt appeal to me  at all ( mostly due to the fact that if i travel - i want my Boxer dog with me )
Which im sure  would prove confrontational ( ie probably certain ticket agents etc would say Yes  ,Sure  Dog  Can  go - (to sell me a ticket )-- only  to be told  No  when arriving at whatever the particular point of dep may be
And i have had  some experience of the trains  previously - without dog  - but  dirty , and slow  is my  memories

Can a motorscooter be rented or  have fitted -- a side car ??- and  is that  legal insurance wise ??
I presume  insurance cover  is included in Any rental  agreenment  car/ motorbike  etc ??????

Never seen a sidecar here.
Too bad tuktuks are illegal.
Dogs go under ... living near a park, I've seen this many times.

gobot wrote:

Never seen a sidecar here.
Too bad tuktuks are illegal.
Dogs go under ... living near a park, I've seen this many times.

http://i.imgur.com/w1PJlF2.png

Dogs go under - the wheel you mean  ??

I could imagine that -  i just carried my boxer  home on  a scooter , and thats the position she settled into ( as per your photo ) - but its not  safe

Only reason i tried it tonight - We are on a quiet thai  island , almost no traffic , distance  1 km -  but i wont do  it again , not worth the risk  - damm sure 


So -- no side  cars  in  Vietbam  either ??

There are, old russian Ural motorcycles what may or may not have papers..

" Can a motorscooter be rented or  have fitted -- a side car ??- and  is that  legal insurance wise ??
I presume  insurance cover  is included in Any rental  agreenment  car/ motorbike  etc ?????? "

Beg Pardon, who are you trying to fool..?   Yourself???

I think it might be another case of the old (urban?) myth,
(not in this province!!!)

..but speaking as a regular Hanoian, I've seen many
sidecars, trikes, (& much more mind-boggling stuff)
and a recent trip to Northern Thailand (Udon Thani)
showed as many sidecars attached as solo bikes. 

..as you may have noticed...

I do not know (and profess extreme disinterest!) in
(whatever?) the actual letter-of-law might be in Viet
Nam,  but it seems no one else bothers either.

Insurance????   Waste your money creatively, at least.
Put it in a sealed bottle and throw it into the ocean.

All an insurance policy does is prove you are just
another honest person.   Stupid too...

Sorry.   You are a good person, but (extremely) foolish.

My suggestion is to arrive and sort it out to suit yourself

I'm sure there are many options to consider

We won't talk about skinning cats...

MikaQ5 wrote:

I could imagine that -  i just carried my boxer  home on  a scooter , and thats the position she settled into ( as per your photo ) - but its not  safe

Only reason i tried it tonight - We are on a quiet thai  island , almost no traffic , distance  1 km -  but i wont do  it again , not worth the risk  - damm sure.

I think that everyone who moves from a modern western country to a 'developing country' (a p.c. euphemism) makes some adjustments to their previous notions of personal safety. It is a culture shock. To us, people here seem to take so many risks. Water quality, food preparation, workers in construction, motorbike riding with families of 5, etc. Risks that we see as easily preventable and illegal in the west, as accepted as normal practice here. Some say the value of life is cheaper in the third world. I think it is more about simply surviving with less money. Safety equipment, shopping at markets with refrigeration, owning a larger vehicle, are luxuries that would hurt the families' standard of living. It is a tradeoff between a certain loss of money in being marginally safer, vs taking personal risks for consequences which will probably never happen.

Growing up in California, I see now how life there is so over-regulated. Every traffic intersection has a signal, stop sign, or (rarely because this verges on anarchy) a yield sign. Citizens demand government repair sidewalks and trim trees lest somebody gets injured. Work safety laws, child safety laws. You can sue the government for not protecting you. You don't have to take any responsibility. It is the government's fault for everything.

I appreciate the freedoms here. And, because 'when in Rome', I notice I take more risks, I adapt, but in a calculated way. My choice because my responsibility.

whew that was long!

Oh wow gobot, you said it so well.
The FREEDOM of it.
When I was in Vietnam for the brief visit I couldn't help notice some of these things and was like.. Why do they FORCE us in the USA? I want to choose how I do things. Not be forced.. I want to be able to buy street food here if my neighbor decides to cook and sell their family recipes.. And all these regulations do is force the cost of goods and services through the ROOF. The choice to do things cheaper... to me is HUGE. I'm still considering a move there and this is part of it. I don't like it here. The over regulated society is a burden and ridiculous and I'd much rather not have it.

Always makes me chuckle when I see one of those tricycles given by the Government to North Vietnamese vets. You guys must have seen them before, 3 wheelers flying the Vietnamese flag, driver wearing old military gear and sunglasses thinking he owns the road.

It's funny to me because that's their reward for being so patriotic but their masters give themselves Luxury Lexus SUV's

Go @ Gobot!!!

" I think it is more about simply surviving with less money. !!! "

Sure, a long post, but you nailed it so accurately!

Rights = Responsibilities = Risks.

I would venture to say most of the 'Culture Shock'
is simply recognition: that the stuff we take for granted
has happened because we handed the responsibilities
to our governing bodies.  Aka, civilization.

Put another way, there is freedom in duty and duty in freedom
so yes, we appreciate the freedom of being ABLE TO take
responsibility for our own actions instead of relying on the PC
and WH&S ( Politically Correct, Workplace Health & Safety )
which reflect how far the pendulum has swung the wrong way.

It has already been said many times before:

" We are free to choose any actions we want...
..but not to escape the consequences..."

Me?   I love the freedom.  And the Money I'm saving here...   

I am interested in where you are living now? Thinking of retiring in Vung Tao and wondering what anyone knows.
Best,
Zanna

@Dragon52, you have added your question to a thread about a completely different topic. I suggest you create a new discussion so more people will see it!  There is also a Vung Tao subforum.

Vung Tau forum

Great news with ASEAN Licences being recognized in all 10 countries.  My Vietnamese Licence will be good in Philippines.

I've seen one side car, in the Mekong.  Looked like a Norton with tourists on it - so special licence required for size and would be a target for Police, because it's different and looks like money.....

Biggest difference between riding in Thailand and Vietnam is the side of rode. Right side. 
Then there is the whoever is in front has right of way - so bikes coming out from homes and side streets are annoying.
then there are the special lanes for motorbikes in some areas that aren't sign posted.

The latest law change has been removal of any added rear bumper.  No additional front bumper was already a law.

herbj wrote:

Biggest difference between riding in Thailand and Vietnam is the side of rode. Right side. 
Then there is the whoever is in front has right of way - so bikes coming out from homes and side streets are annoying.
The latest law change has been removal of any added rear bumper.  No additional front bumper was already a law.

Well,no unless there is a traffic sing it is normal "right of the way" rule.  They just choose not to obay rules.. and they pay for it sometimes with their lives...
and about bumpers this has been case long.. and it is hassle to change them always to have the road worthy inspections 🙈 Can't even change wheel size... legally... and police hardly ever give tickets about those

Cars are super expensive in VN. Taxes. And if you get one parts or the whole car get stolen. You may have to hire a driver to look after it when on trips. Getting a drivers license I hear is a pain. Stick to Thailand. VN is a Communist country if you have not heard lately. Rampant corruption, arcane laws, immigration/visa problems up the wazoo, just to name a few. Better than Cuba, but that is not saying much.

I've been a mopedist (?) and motorcyclist for nearly 50 years and am perfectly happy on two wheels here, but would be petrified of cleaning up a motorcyclist within 10 minutes if I drove a car. So I don't. It was the opposite when I lived in Malaysia, where in four years I saw five dead motorcyclists (accident scene, body with a sheet over it) and drove a car instead -- there was no way I'd get on a bike!

The main difference was the speed differential between cars and bikes. In Malaysia, which has lots of recent wealth, the cars and roads are new and there are lots of cars (a ratio of 50/50 to motorcycles these days, I believe) being driven too fast by people who haven't grown up with them. Meanwhile, most motorcycles there are still 100-150cc and struggle to do 100km/h on the motorway were cars whiz past at 160km/h.

In Vietnam everything is much slower due to the poor infrastructure, there are vastly more motorcycles, and in three years I haven't seen a dead person yet, though I've seen a few hurt ones (I hope I haven't tempted Fate -- as a motorcyclist I'm a great believer in the all-conquering power of Fate).

Thailand in my experience is a bit like Malaysia. However, as someone else already pointed out, drivers and riders there seem more considerate (no beeping of horns for instance, and they usually let you merge into their lane). In Vietnam there's lots of beeping ("watch out, I'm here!") and no-one lets you merge, but if you're cautiously insistent they'll swerve around you and there's no road rage.

Sorry I can't help you with your dog, unless you carry it on your scooter's floorboard as per an earlier photo. It seems you've decided on a car anyway, but keep in mind it'll take you three times as long to get anywhere. Danang may not be too bad -- yet -- but just wait until the abolition of ASEAN import duties kicks in later this year and Thai-built Toyotas flood the market. Saigon and Hanoi will come to a standstill and the up-and-coming powerhouse of Danang won't be far behind.

Riding a motorbike in Saigon is a real highlight to me, plenty to see while doing an exercise of attentiveness and ballance.
Trafic is a bit different than in Thailand, trying to explain would need many words, it's very 'organic', once you drive here you will understand. Safely fitting in is a joyful excercise, be slow and attentive enough for all of it to happen.
I wouldn't want to be in Danang, pretty much anywhere, without a bike!