禁漫天堂

i think i saw an article on facebook about how to deal with that very problem = will seek it out and post聽 - i hear it is a very big problem here - i know one complex who has taken steps to make it harder for them to use the complex聽 = a security key fob to control an access barrier - and it also controls access to communal toilets, showers, plus internal gym and indoor pool - no fees paid no fob no access to facilities - thus making it harder / awkward for those who dont pay and rent out their apartments

ALSO FOUND THIS AND REPOSTED IT FOR YOU FOR IDEAS - COMMUNAL EXPENSES ISSUES
Answering Objections: Other owners don鈥檛 pay their communal maintenance charges and get away with it, so why should I pay my Communal Fee?
In this article I discuss how to answer one of the most common objections given by owners who have stopped paying their communal maintenance fees. If you have been involved in collection of the communal fund, you will have heard this objection.
Getting to the Source of the Problem
There is a false, but very common opinion that owners of communal property in Cyprus can get away with not paying their apartment building or resorts communal maintenance fees.
While collections is a tough task requiring many different methods and tools (check out my other articles for advice on how to do this) the law is on your side.
Despite what others may say, if you know the regulations, your rights as a committee and take the appropriate steps and actions it鈥檚 actually quite hard to get away with paying communal maintenance charges.
So what鈥檚 the problem then?
Simply, Owners and committees don鈥檛 know their legal rights, obligations and how to use the methods and tools available to them to effectively make owners pay their communal fee and collect the communal fund.
Note: This is one of the primary reasons for the founding of theCyprusCommunalGuide.com
If using ineffective or in some cases nearly non-existent collection methods, or you are in the process of chasing debts but are not effectively communicating to the owners who do pay what you are doing to collect the arrears, the owners who do pay get frustrated at the ones 鈥榞etting away with it鈥� and make this objection.
How do you deal with this objection?Your 1st Answer. Make sure you inform them of the tools you are using to pursue the debtors.
Providing your committee is legally elected at a properly formed AGM, and the communal fee is charged correctly, no owner should be getting away with non-payment.
Unlike Credit Cards, payment of the Communal fee is a legal obligation set out in the core property law. Any debts can be secured by court order against the property similar to a mortgage, or council rate arrears.
Getting collections from debtors takes time, but it鈥檚 important for owners to know this process has been started. Whether you have in-house credit control, use external debt collectors or jump immediately to legal action.
Quick Note: I have a juicy article coming soon about improving collections without the delays and costs of legal action so don鈥檛 forget to check back, or like our Facebook page to get an update when its released.
Let them know that debtors pay for these delays as you can add costs for lawyers, debt collection fees etc. to their debt which can be a significant increase.
Your 2nd Answer. Use my favorite ideal-world/real-world statement.
In an ideal world everyone would pay on-time and in full, but we live in the real world.
Some owners will delay or avoid paying their communal fees, and we all know it takes time to pursue these.
This means while the committee takes the action against the debtors the burden falls with those that do pay to cover the shortfall.
It鈥檚 not ideal, it鈥檚 not fair or pleasant but unless people want their buildings to go derelict it鈥檚 what needs to happen.
By stopping paying their fees, all they will do is add to the problem, and rack up a load of extra costs in the process.
If they still object.
This will give you the ideal opportunity to demonstrate that you do not ignore the debtors, and how much work goes into collecting. Show them every step by running them through your collections procedure until they do pay

ALSO FOUND THIS ARTICLE FROM 2012 -

Hi Toon,
A newbie here.
I was wondering if you could offer some advice regarding non payers of communal charges

I came across your post from 14 July 2017 that you was discussing. You then said you would post some further news/updates at a later date about these issues but I haven't been able to find them.

I am a committee member of a private complex in Paphos. It's all legal and we held our AGM as recently as last week but we are having major issues this year with non payers.
One of the main problems we have.... is that the 'original' developer has been gradually been buying back properties ( that in the past WERE payers) and just renting them out and this also adds to the list.

Then we have the untraceable owners where we have no idea where they live.
We are looking at contacting the land registry to see if we get any joy.

All the committee members have their title deeds if that presents any issues.

Toon....any help or advice you can offer would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Regards Mike

I think its a big problem聽 and getting bigger all the time as more and more people find it harder to live here or rent their properties out thus they sell-up....and move on.

Surely in your case the developer who is buying up the properties has to accept he has the responsibility to pay his/her share of the communal expenses for the properties he has bought back empty or not -0 i can only suggest a lawyer should be consulted.....

other than what ive said above gleaned from the internet there is not much i can offer by way of answers = i wish there was聽 i know a few people on this positions already and they've got no answers either...

not paying the communal expenses simply results in degraded properties eventually becoming run down and derelict with little or no chance of selling... not good for anyone.

we dont own we simply rent, we never rent on a complex for these very reasons and others too...聽 The more i hear the more i am against buying anything here but renting carries risks just different ones.... but it works for us for now

Good luck Mike

Thanks for your reply Toon

Mike

just a thought聽 maybe thats the developers plan to eventually buy back the whole lot by making it untenable to live there聽 - thus he gets the properties back and rent them out at extortionate rates.????

Maybe this may help - it might be a good idea to get a copy - -

is there an insurance policy like "common insurance"聽 available to owners of complex properties

Not too sure about the 'common' insurance

but I do appreciate your input Toon

its worth asking a broker - it doesnt stop the problem - - - but it may help insure against future defaulters聽 -ok it will cost the owners but it may mean that the good paying owners dont get penalised for those who default... but i dont know how you can stop owners defaulting in payment - of course you may find that some owners who know this is in place will聽 not pay knowing that the insurer will pay

you may wish to invest in a security system with fobs to access key parts of the the complex... these can be reprogrammed at will and handed out only to those who pay.... thus hindering anyone who doesnt pay making their properties not so attractive to potential renters聽 = am thinking of controlled access to communal showers toilets聽 and access by car to the complex.聽

good luck

AN INTERESTING THREAD OF RESPONSES FOR YOU ON FACEBOOK....聽

Hi Toon,

I have a question regarding unpaid communal charges by the previous vendor (nearly 鈧�2000) am I liable for these charges? I have been paying my fees since settlement date. I purchased property in Larnaca last Oct 18. Committee are saying I am liable. Contract of sale saying previous vendor liable to pay all taxes etc. before settlement.

Thanks in advance.
Adrian

I would say stick to the contractual agreement you have on the sale of the property to you....

If the committee of the complex have failed to obtain the fees due by the last owner then that is their problem not yours - do they have an agreement with you for the outstanding amounts,聽 or is there something in the communal agreement stipulating that the new owner is liable for any outstanding fees when a sale takes place.

i would ask for a copy of such an agreement and for it to be proved to you that you as the new owner are liable聽 - if this is the case then I would take it up with the lawyer who handled your purchase as to why this wasnt identified as a liability?

Good luck

Thanks Toon, much appreciated.

Hi toon.

I brought a property in paphos 15 years ago.ive always paid my communal charges.We got a lovely Cypriot lady who collects the monthly charges.

I was asked to pay 500 euros for the painting of the outside of the block last year.They are asking for another 500euros for the painting of the inside.

Now I've got no problem paying.Does the monthly communal charges cover these cost.

Does the communal charges cover roof damage

Your complex should have an elected committee by law.... And they decide what is and what isn't included in your communal fees .... Painting is usually an extra as is roof damage ..but.depending on the cause it may be covered by the complex insurance cover.

I would be asking the committee

Recent article...

In June details were published of a draft jointly-owned building law designed to solve a host of serious issues with the current law including the lack of management committees, non-payment of communal fees, insurance, etc., etc.

Prepared by the Department of Lands and Surveys, the objective of the law is to provide management committees with the flexibility to carry out its obligations, to ensure that unit owners meet their obligations and that properties are properly maintained.

The new bill has completed its public consultation phase and is now in the final stages of preparation; it should be ready for judicial review in a month.

Stockwatch reported on some of the discussions taking place on the bill at the Parliament鈥檚 interior committee.

Speaking to the committee DISY MP Nikos Georgiou said that the state must regulate the problems related to the maintenance and repair of jointly-owned buildings. He referred to a recent incident in Limassol where part of a balcony of a jointly-owned building in Limassol collapsed.

The MP added that apartment buildings in this condition pose a risk to the public health and safety of the owners, tenants and those who live outside these buildings.

(There were two such incidents reported in October in which one woman was slightly injured. Also in October, a woman died after falling from a balcony in Paphos. In July, four balconies in Paphos collapsed.)

Chairman of the committee, AKEL MP Aristos Damianou, said that the majority of jointly-owned buildings have not been registered and the committee will examine the issue in the coming days.

Mr Damianou added that in the meantime many companies have taken over the management of jointly-owned buildings that they have developed, which may cause questions. In many cases these buildings have no management committees and this causes problems due to their non-existence and non-payment of due amounts.

According to the Ministry, the new bill will make the establishment of a management committee mandatory and it will have to be registered.

I expect there will be further discussion on this new bill and it will resolve the multitude of problems with the existing law.

Non-payment of communal fees

In 20+ years experience, the most urgent problem to address is the non-payment of communal fees. Debts must be collected as soon as possible if jointly-owned buildings are not going to fall into disrepair and collapse like those reported in Limassol and Paphos. For example:

Instigating a small court claims procedure where debts will be repaid in 2 or 3 weeks.

Seizing movable property owned by the debtor and selling it to repay the debt.

Securing the property thereby preventing its owner (or tenant) from entering the property.

Restricting withdrawals/transfers from the debtor鈥檚 bank account(s) until the debt has been paid.

Preventing the sale, renting, mortgaging and otherwise disposing of properties whose owners have not paid their communal fees.

Lodging a lien against a contract of sale in cases where no title deed has been issued in the name of the debtor.

Of course, there will be genuine cases of hardship preventing owners from paying communal fees. These must be taken into account and a settlement negotiated.

The final two on the list above, preventing the sale and lodging a lien, will not achieve the quick results necessary and will only act as a final stop-gap measure.

Under the current law, management committees can take legal action against the debtor. But this does not provide a solution to the problem.

Court cases can take 3 or 4 years to be heard and even if successful payment is not assured and further court action is required. A court may also demand the debtor to repay the debt in low value instalments, and it could take many years to recover the debt (assuming the debtor abides by the court ruling.)

The kiss of death approach

The new law must not obligate the owners who pay their communal fees to pay the debt of those who do not pay. These owners will refuse to pay the debt and, as a consequence, often refuse to pay their communal fees as well 鈥� 鈥淲hy should I pay when someone else is not paying?鈥�. Such a move will have a domino effect until no-one pays, the management committee resigns and the jointly-owned building falls into disrepair

Source

Hi Toon

I'm wondering if you can help me? I'm recently appointed as a committee member alongside another as thr management team within our very small communal area of only 10 properties. We all share a communal garden and large pool.

The previous committee have let things run down advise that owners are declining to pay towards repair. They do pay a annual running costs fee. It also states in our AGM the annual fee is to cover running expenses and anything else is additional.

The other member and I want to look at a refurb (there is a leak, to fix, liner for the pool and other things to help reduce costs in the future as well as investment for our properties values etc) we estimate approx 2000 per owner, however some owners are not happy and not interested to pay. However this leaves us with a leak, a very run down pool and generally old area.

Are we able to request they pay? We have offered monthly plans etc? Or can we put it somewhere so if they wanted to sell (with the new pool increasing the value) they would have to pay their contribution first?

Thank you

Difficult to make owners pay...聽 Please also refer to the earlier posts in this thread ..

All you can do is make the request..and later chase with a threat of initial debt collection agencies then follow up with legal action against them if they don't or won't pay. Add the non payment to the debt on their property and apply for a lien on the property...which means the debt must be paid before the sale can proceed. None of this helps responsible owners pay for what is needed to be done. Believe this or not but you can't even force owners to pay in advance either which baffles me as without funds in advance I cannot understand why these people think their property can be kept maintained. Who on earth do they think pays for communal gardens pool lighting pathways parking areas cleaning lifts electricity and water, pest control and sewage..... All of which they benefit from whilst not paying or delaying payment. Some of these items will need replacement or expensive refurbs at end of their normal聽 use lives..IE lifts, sewage plants, pools external and internal communal areas painting. I know of one complex who have had this issue due to 25% of owners not paying anything for 9 months whilst others were paying... the non payers were sent letters to advise of the engagement of a debt collection agency if payment wasn't received with 7-10 days and that worked recovering a substantial amount.

Sadly many complexes are in this position and it usually means the payers make up the shortfall of funds .. also you cannot presently stop an owner from using the facilities as they own a share.

I would suggest you wait until the new IPL is passed legislated and published as聽 it is expected that new laws are to be included to address these problems and many others that are a major blight on responsible owners of community living complexes. Anyone thinking of purchasing on a complex need to be aware and wary of these issues and should demand via their lawyer a current set of accounts from the vendor. These are a good indicator of how well the complex is run and managed.

All you can do is try to explain that this is an owners obligation and聽 part of their contract of purchase and hope for the best . Use a set of accounts to show the state of the complex聽 finances...income, costs, and that there is no current sinking/contingency fund. After all these owners who dont or wont pay have invested heavily in their property and by not paying to maintain them will adversely affect their value not just of their property but other owners properties too...

I guess they are at least paying the usual聽 fees...how you convince them to pay for the things that need expensive repairs or maintenance is another matter

I wish you good luck