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Hi Bavna, living in Malaysia is better nowadays if we compare to other asain countries. After retirement also OK to stay here. But it's depends on how is your life style,
In Kuala Lampur is quite easy lifestyle, here transportation is good to move anywhere. Clean environment, less traffic. Lots of tourists around the city.

Hi Bhavna,

According to me, The best cities in Kuala Lumpur for retirees are Penang & Langkawi.

Here in these cities life is much easire than any other crowded cities.
People can enjoy their free time speding at beach, mountains for hiking, Clubbing etc.
Life is much more easier when the town is small and not crowded, 
Convenient transportation close to airport, sea ferry and ofcourse best in taste for different food.

Hi there.  I went to Malaysia alone last month to check it out since I had some free time before I got busy at work.  My wife who is Malaysian Chinese and from Johor Bahru didn't have the time to go back with me.  Ironically, she likes where we are now more, San Francisco, but I am hoping when her parents get even older that she wouldn't mind hanging out say part of the year there at least.  Her nephews and nieces are all there too.  Come on, all the durian you can eat, honey!!!!!

Take it for what it is worth, but here are my impressions from my 10 day visit:

1) It is quite hot there in Malaysia.  You may be semi used to it due to where you are from but for some folks it can be quite a change.  Hot and sticky all day and then the occasional thunderstorm will come through.  I think I can get used to it, but the constant heat and then cold from air conditioning might get some folks more prone to getting sick.  I didn't get sick immediately when I got back to San Francisco but did recently and I do believe it is related to the trip there.  I normally rarely ever catch cold or get sick.

2) The variety of lifestyle is great.  Want urban, bustling city life?  Well, Kuala Lumpur is def that.  A tad quieter and quite cool with the art scene and river that runs through the city is Melaka.  Loved it there.  Even more quieter but inland is Ipoh which I hear is very desirable due to the clean air and less congestion there.  My understanding is that Penang is where a lot of expats stay.  I myself don't envision staying in KL (mind as well stay in San Francisco) but could be convinced to stay on the northern shore of Penang Island (Batu Ferringhi, Tanjung Bungah, Quay Straits area.  The areas along the coast were quite nice.  According to my bro-in-law who lives in Singapore he thought the southern area of Johor Bahru is a good investment and place to settle down due to the proximity to Singapore.  Well, to me, that just means more and more people which is not exactly what I want during retirement years.  Obviously I only touched places on my trip, but I would certainly revisit Melaka, Penang and Ipoh when I hopefully need to go back to finalize the MM2H paperwork.

3) The food is quite good as everyone says and so cheap.  I totally enjoyed myself at the many street hawker stands that are literally everywhere.  I love how the streets come alive at night where everyone comes out and eats into the wee hours.  I am a night owl, so this aspect of Malaysia lifestyle I totally can go for.  I didn't have any problems with the food except one day when I may had some non fresh seafood.

4)  The people are quite friendly.  I think I stood out as a foreigner despite being Chinese but everyone I encountered were nice and treated me quite well.     

5) Obviously coming from a way higher cost of living place like the US and especially San Francisco it will be downright cheap to live there in Malaysia.  I saw a beautiful home in the Horizon Hills golf course development that would have been about slightly more than $400K US.  It was 4 bedrooms, 3k sq ft and had over the top security.  If single family homes is not your thing, def condos are everywhere and one can certainly find something reasonably cheap (again depends on your current cost of living standards) if you look long enough.  In fact, there are articles about how foreigners especially from Hong Kong and China presumably are snapping up condos left and right.  I airbnb'd my stay there, all 10 days, in nice high rise condo towers with infinity roof pools and 24 hour security.  I paid a max about $30 a night for either a studio or one bedroom condo.  So cheap that I don't think it is good advise to honestly buy property there.  Simply supply and demand theory.  Renting is the way to go, unless you have some unique landed property that you plan to keep for future generations.

6) People drive fairly aggressively there, especially the scooters and motorcycles.  I think I would get used to the right sided steering wheel and left side lane driving eventually but you really can't be a timid driver there especially in KL and other major urban cities.  Yes, Grab car service is there in most places I guess but I think it would still be useful to have a car there.  My wife bought her dad a new small car and my bro-inlaw and I took it all over the southern part of Malaysia.  Quite good and felt like a Honda.  I was impressed.

My advice would be to visit Malaysia and do as I did if you can if not longer.  I totally could have used another two weeks there to really soak up Malaysia.

Good luck to you!!!

Hi, retirement? Is it need pay permit also?
I'm Indonesian, normally visitor from my county need pay permit

Best Cities for retirees from abroad.

Everyone is different and have different desires and interests.

Most people in the MM2H retirement Program focus on the Peninsula. I'll suggest two cities beyond that after discussing the main localities in the Peninsula.

1) Kuala Lumpur...urban, noisy with the hub-but expected of the seat of Malaysia's government (okay, it's moved to Putrajaya, but much of the nations commercial life still pass through KL). It's got lots of events, restaurants, malls, nightlife, and speciality stores and access to health care. Prices for housing will be a bit higher here, and if you want a place with a yard you may pay a sizable amount for purchase or rent.  Lots of expats but the proportion of retirees to expats and to population overall is low. Still there are groups and associations that exist that brings expats and expat retirees together. While there are parks you'd have to travel a bit to get to forested areas, Climate warm to hot and humid. Of all the cities pollution is the highest. Ethnically diverse with quite distinct districts and some tension between the different population, that become noticeable to long term residents or visitors. Crime is less than many Asian cities but higher than most of the other cities on the list.

2) Penang...by which is meant the island. Penang is also urban, and getting denser quickly. It's an island, after all. Majority Chinese, with large subcomponents of Malay and Indian. Neighborhoods (outside of actual kampongs) less ethnically isolated. More Malay culture is apparent in the sister city on opposite Mainland (Seberang Perak or Wellington).

The neighborhood of Georgetown is a UNESCO heritage district with lots of old preserved buildings, although increasingly these are being refashioned as flash packer hotels, fancy restaurants, and idiosyncratic museums and galleries. One can still get street food and inexpensive food in the kopitiams (coffee houses) Prices in the core are exorbitant but one can find affordable condos outside the center. This is perhaps the most popular city for MM2H retirees, as there are several beach resorts and condos that run up Gurney Drive to Batu Feringghi and beyond. There are lots of natural areas (particular on the Northwest and West Coast and one can escape the heat and humidity by going up for day trips and hiking on Penang Hill.

Religious diversity is prominent with Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu, Christian and Muslim temples and churches cheek by jowl.

Snatch crime does exist, can be affected by haze from Indonesia.

3) Ipoh is in between Penang and KL and is another center for retirees looking for a quieter pace of life. It was once a center of the tin mining trading and is thus strongly Chinese with a Malay tinge. Located in a Chinese karst area the two is surrounded with hills covered with forest. Also warm and humid. But it's about an hour by car from the cooler hill resort/hiking area called Cameron Highlands which is something of a enclave of a past British colonial phase (including faux Tudor architecture). Costs for housing is quite a bit lower. Lower crime than the bigger cities.

4) Malacca- a former Sultanate, then Portuguese, and then Dutch, and then British port, Malacca is replete with history and museums that explore that past. Today it's Chinese, Malay and Indian. Lots of tourists but finding the retired expats may be a chore. Because the center is a UNESCO Heritage site the condo towers are more peripheral. Can be quite hot and humid. The beaches are crappy, but a short drive up the coast or to Pangkor island is a possibility. Malls and hotels are on the reclaimed land along the coast or peripheral. One advantage of Malacca is that it is convenient to KLIA.

5) Johor-Iskander...this is a rapidly developing area drawing in expats and retirees who want the proximity to Singapore. Warning...it can take hours to actually make the crossing over the causeway to the latter. Lots of expats, almost no tourists, some retirees...in fact it's been heavily promoted in China. Some areas look to become ethnic enclaves. It's one of the most affordable places to buy property - the State has a property floor of only RM 500.000.

Now to Sarawak and Sabah on the island of Borneo....both have slightly different MM2H programs as they have separate immigration services through a quick of history.

6) Kota Kinabalu, Sabah- perched on hills and a coastal strip that looks out over the S. China Sea KK is scenic, unpolluted, and more rural. Beaches exist in several resorts and on several islands off the coast. Diving and other water sports (fishing) is popular. Housing rentals are cheap, and it has a low floor for property purchase...in fact Sabah is the only State that actually requires one to rents or purchase property to qualify for MM2h. A small expat community. Sabah is a blend of different ethnicities than the Peninsula...,including a large component of indigenous Kadaszan and other groups who are Christian, there are also Malays and Chinese, and a large immigrant community of Indonesians and Filipinos. Although KK is hot and humid it's cooler sea breezes on the hills makes it livable, and an hour or so drive to the plateau surrounding Mount Kinabalu (the highest Mt. in SE Asia at over 4000m) can take one to absolutely shivery climes. Sabah has the most wildlife and coral reefs for nature buffs. Crime is mainly petty, but in the South there have been kidnappings of divers and fishermen by Islamic radicals centered in the Mindanao and Sulu region of the Philippines.

7) Kuching, Sarawak- like KK, the city of Kuching is distinctive as it was the seat of power for an independent nation ruled by a dynasty of White Rajahs for 100 years. Unlike KK, Kuching was not bombed out by allied air strikes in WW2. Thus it has retained it's historic colonial downtown. Sarawakians are strident about retaining their "independence" under the "Federation of Malaysia". The expression of indigenous (Dayak) identity is powerful. They make up about 40% of the population and most are Christian. About 30% of the population are Chinese (mixed Christian/Taoist/ Confucianist)  that came in various waves and regions of Southern China starting in the mid-1700's. Another 30% is Malay. That means that any State government has to appeal to diverse communities. There has also been lots of intermarriage between communities. This has blurred racial identities.

Lots of tourists....and festivals for jazz, world music, regular bands on the River waterfront (free), a light show, and dining. Kuching is about 20 miles from the coastal resort area of Damai/Santubong and has about a half dozen national parks within a hours drive from the city (which itself has large areas of forests and mangrove).  Climate warm and humid...there is one hill resort and several homesteads in the hill areas near the border.

Crime that might affect expats is almost nonexistent...some cycle and car theft (smuggled to indonesia).

Expats are few  and expat retirees are fewer, but the Sarawak Museum, the Kuching Heritage and Malaysian Nature Society have regular lectures. There are many museums, and  In fact, Sarawak is the only state that requires a local sponsor to obtain an MM2H visa, does not allow agents/middlemen and is targeted only to those over 50 years of age. Financial obligations are lower than elsewhere in Malaysia. And Sarawak has the lowest floor for property purchases (RM300,000). One does not have to live in Sarawak or buy property. There is talk about revisions to the Sarawak MM2H to encourage more applications. Presumably this will mean changes in the sponsor requirement and other benefits..but that is just guessing.

Geez, cinnamonape, you could have told me you were planning to write this.... I could have saved nearly 2 weeks of vacation time and probably over $5K spent on my trip.  :-)))

It took my about an hour...and didn't have to do any research. My view is that everyone is gonna have different interests and needs. Some love KK and Kuching...others find them out of the mainstream. And there are some hassles getting an MM2H visa here and Sabah for some people. I'm not a big city person, or rather, I'm tired of living in a big city (after NYC, Los Angeles, Sacramento, the San Francisco Bay Area, etc.).

Also people need to think ahead a few years...what will conditions be in 5-10 years. Will you be looking at the wall of a new high-rise instead of that great view you had before? Or is the nearby shopping mall losing business and may be struggling in a few years. The little kopitiams run by locals never seem to go out of business, but the megamalls have such fickle clienteles that whatever the new thing draws away customers and shops.

Clubbing for retirees? Is that realistic? Going out for drinks yes, but clubbing is not a thing older ppl do.

I live in the Klang valley and have for nearly a year. I agree with your sentiments and the review you wrote.

Hi, late to the thread I know. I just asked this question in a DM to someone but I'm throwing out to the forum too. Maybe I should start another thread with this.

Anyhow, as I continue to explore Malaysia from afar I seem to keep coming back to KK. It seems to check a lot of boxes for us. But I am getting very little feedback on the forums and FB as to the real experience (or any responses to anything). How is day to day life there there? Is the flooding situation significant?  I'm also wondering if the MM2H-Sabah is much different, or shall I say will be much different when they roll this out again. We currently live in a rural area in California, USA, we don't need much stimulation. My wife wants to snorkel as much as she can, I like to play touch-rugby and watch matches. We're both plant-based in diet and don't drink, so nightlife and expensive restaurants aren't our thing. We love culture and people, and want to connect with authentic and kind people. We also want to be able to support the community/environment in any way we can and feel part of a community.

I lived in KK for 2 years. It is nice. But I would check out Ipoh. It is the new 'Penang' for retirees. Much slower lifestyle, beautiful scenery. Access to beaches for snorkelling is not close but very doable. It is only 90 minutes for Penang.

Cinnamon,
Very helpful comments on Sarawak - many thanks to you.
John

Bahvna,
It may seem to be a very obvious comment but when you find a place to settle, the advice is to rent and not buy straight away.
Give it several months before deciding as, once you buy a property, it may not be that easy to dispose of if you don't feel at home and at ease.
JC

I don't live in Sabah (I opted to live in Kuching Sarawak) but have spent months and months in KK over the last two decades. It's a slightly different flavor of Borneo...mainly from the influence of the Philippines (some estimate that there are as many Philippine non-Malaysian residents as indigenous Sabahans). Interestingly Sabah gets a lot more Chinese package tourists, some of whom are very culturally illiterate and lack an awareness of how to do nature tourism...yet (pre-pandemic) they did bring in lots of money.

The scenery in Sabah is spectacular and there are areas that one can get to try quickly to get a break from the hot coast. Flooding does occur in the lower coastal areas, particular in the rare cases of tropical typhoons that tail off from their assaults on the Philippines... though most areas with condos and houses that would be in the price range for expats in KK are a bit more elevated. KK really does not have any old buildings...almost all the cities were bombed flat during WW2 by the Allies. So its all shoplots and malls in the downtown with many residential areas back in the foothills. I think that some have invested in property in  a bit more rural areas but I am not sure if that involves leasing of native land rather than actual ownership. Helps to have a local wife if one actually wants to buy property that is restricted to natives.

My understanding is the the Sabah MM2H has a property requirement (perhaps rental contract is acceptable) and requires an agent...,though if you can find a local sponsor they may allow a self application. You'd have to speak with the Ministry of Tourism to find out more. Sabah is even worse than Sarawak in clarifying what their rules are...but they tend to mirror the old Peninsular MM2H more closely than Sarawak. They also do not allow one to actually live in the Peninsula or Sarawak...though you can visit. MM2H and Sarawak MM2H are treated as tourists with (I believe) a 30 day visit pass. I wish there was reciprocity between Sarawak and Sabah so one could live/rent in either place. It would make both programs more attractive.

Vito....I agree with John that you would want to visit and speak with people before making a firm decision. Beaufort on the Padas River is notorious for flooding.

There is probably a rugby club in KK, but I doubt anywhere else.

KK has the overcrowded Tuanku Abdul Rahman NP just offshore...but it can get messy and turbid at times. Not sure if there are good coastal reefs where one could just hop down into the water near KK. Maybe up near Sutera Resort. Plus there is the pollution issue.

Problem is that the rivers of Borneo tend to bring a lot of sediment  and other material down creating mangrove swamps which are not conducive for reef-building. The islets off shore is where the coral is located. There may be a few reefss up (Kudat, Kota Belud) or down the coast (Kimanis) where one could do snorkel though. Lots of snorkeling areas in the Semporna area, of course, on the offshore islands. But establishing oneself in a beach-side bungalow there might make one a conspicuous target for the occasional Jemaah Islamiya foray from Sulu. Beautiful area for visiting, though. North coast is decidedly safer (although the police recently found a cadre hiding on the North Coast to avoid detection).

If you are vegetarian based then you should be able to find enough in the Tamus (street markets) to subsist. There are a couple of Cold Storage spots in KK for imported fruits and vegetables...though lots of things are grown locally, even cool weather vegetables/fruits and berries are produced up in the Kinabalu highlands. There are some specialized restaurants in KK though the selection is nowhere like even moderate sized cities in the US. Get used to an Asian cuisine.

Thanks! Well, if one  were  to go for the Sarawak MM2H how long coud they "visit" in Saba at a time and how long before the needed to come back? My understanding currently is you only have to spend a few weeks in Sarawak, so then would Sabah limit how long I could stay there? We don't plan to own, anything, ever, if we can help it.

Thanks for the dive info. Yes, it seemed like if you wanted to snorkle in kk you would have to get in a boat. I had wondered how polluted and safe the water was there and the condition of the reefs with those communities over the water, I mean, where is all the sewage going?

Theres a big rugby complex in Sandakan, but I was trying to find if there was a touch league in KK for oldies like me.mI thought maybe if I lived near the sports complex in KK there might be some action.

Well, do you have any recommendations on where one would live in Malaysia if one wanted to frequently snorkle? KK seemed like the place given all the islands and marine parks. It seems very diverse in culture and environment. And KK seems like about as muçh city as we could tolerate. I don't think Kuching fits the bill, and Panang/Langkawi seem to touristy and not enough nature. Although if I see a cobra or a viper I will probably soil myself haha...or a box jelly for that matter. 

Thanks for the info regarding those who might try and kidnap or other nefarious activities. I don't want to end up like a character in a Paul Bowles novel.

As far as asian cuisine, it's generally preferable as my wife needs to avoid wheat, and I prefer all Asian food over any other.

Here's a good blog written by a local about all the off-the-beaten track locales in Sabah. You can type in topics like beaches and snorkeling and find some information that you may find useful.



I have a friend that is also wheat intolerant (gluten-free) and has to be careful. It's surprising how much wheat is out there but he makes do. He has even started to make pizzas in an Chinese oven he has with rice flour and potato flour ;-)

One more point...the further you get out of KK (except for Semporna or Sandakan) the more you will need to know Bahasa Malay.

Thanks!

This was written 15 years ago, have things improved since then?