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Investment and moving to Cypress

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RW60

I am in the process of planning to retire to Cypress in 3 years time. I have just returned from a fact finding trip and generally feel comfortable with most aspects of the move and besides which I have 3 years to get to fine tune and get to grips with the details.


However the one area which is troubling me is Finance in particular managing investments (SIPPS and ISA's) in Cyprus and moving from being tax resident in the UK to Cypress.


One solution is pass everything to a Financial Adviser but the fees are eyewatering and as such not an attractive proposition,


Has anybody got experience of managing this process themselves or working with professionals who aren't going to charge 7% of the fund value as an upfront fee (plus ongoing management and fund fees)?

Armoukid

It is going to cost you something, UK advisers are not supposed to advise non UK clients. 7% is excessive and the better advisers do not charge this much.

Toon

I would suggest contacting Blevin's Franks as they have offices in UK Cyprus and Malta .. they are well versed in these things and I have used them myself  for advice

Markie1810

@RW60 I disagree with the current comments, you don't need a Blevins Franks unless you move outside the EU/EEA.

I too am considering retiring to Cyprus in the next year or so and would suggest there are cheaper alternatives. Hargreaves Lansdowne and A J Bell are a case in point. I asked about an International SIPP and how to be paid gross as I want to be a tax resident of Cyprus (€19k tax threshold etc.). I discovered that these platforms will support existing customers living in the EU/EEA. They are very much cheaper platforms and offer considerably more investment options, as well as subject to UK scrutiny. The stumbling block for them is primarily a UK bank account. Put simply the only reason you would need a Blevins Franks is if you retire outside the EU/EEA.

I am an existing A J Bell customer and enclose their reply to my enquiry ref. retiring:


Further to your query, we wouldn’t be able to comment on the logistics of having a SIPP overseas and what is required, we can only comment on taking taxable income.


Depending on what country i.e. if you have the double taxation agreement, you can apply to HMRC for an NT tax code. Until this is received, the payments would be subject to UK income tax. If you require further information on this, I would recommend you speak to HMRC.


Additionally, we are only able to pay income to a UK bank account, we cannot pay income to an overseas bank account.


In some instances when clients are unable to obtain a UK bank account, we can accept bank accounts such as Monzo or Wise that have a UK sort code and account number.


Hope this helps.

phildraper

Just to add to this. When living on Cyprus and this is your tax country you can get a DT individual from HMRC this is lodged with Cyprus tax office against your tax ref and sent back to HMRC. On the form you enter all the private pensions you have and then HMRC issue tax codings to the pension providers and they pay gross. This income is entered on your Cyprus tax return. Other UK salary can be paid gross if you complete a P85 on the HMRC website when you leave uk

Toon

@phildraper


Bang on the money sir

gwynj

@RW60


There are many international brokerage accounts including large ones like Saxo and Interactive Brokers. This allows you to self-manage your funds with minimal commissions. You can buy shares in various markets and invest in units trusts or ETFs if you want to put some into managed funds. They might allow you to transfer your ISA holdings directly to your new trading account, or you might have to liquidate the ISA holdings and simply transfer the resulting funds.


You also need to check with your current provider (for your ISA/SIPP) in relation to their rules on non-UK residents. Many cannot keep you as a client once you relocate abroad and are no longer a UK tax resident. But some will let you keep your accounts, but with restrictions.


I have (or had) accounts with Saxo/IB/Ameritrade/Fidelity/Schwab, these are all pretty big names in discount online brokerages. I have half my money this way, and the other half is in property (which is less liquid, but typically inflation-proof). I also manage my father's funds, and he has an ISA and dealing account with AJ Bell (good UK brokerage). AJ Bell will keep his account even when he officially leaves the UK, but I would not be able to add to ISA. I've opened a separate international brokerage account for him in order to put in the proceeds of his house sale, and I'll figure out what of the ISA goes in there later.


My dad went through a Wealth Advisor, so there was a significant fee associated with this, AND I noticed most of the funds chosen (I'm guessing for the commission) had pretty high annual fund charges (1.5% to 3.5%). I transferred from the WA to AJ Bell, and I may need to transfer some/all to the new account in the future. Over the last couple of years, I've replaced ALL the high fee unit trusts with similar ETFs (typical annual fee 0.5% or so). Plus I put a significant chunk of the account directly into blue-chip dividend stocks (BT, Unilever, BAT, L&G, Telefonica, ENI, etc.). These have pretty good dividend payments that I set to reinvest automatically, and there's 0% annual fee when holding a stock.


Obviously, it's a lot more work for you to self-manage your account, and it can be a bit intimidating if you've never done it before. But it's pretty easy, and there are plenty of conservative stocks and funds to choose rather than plunking it all into some small-cap meme stock that catches your attention. But it's VERY inexpensive compared to a WA, and there's plenty of online guidance on DIY investing (Motley Fool, etc.).

phildraper

Blevins Frank normally need over 1 mil to get their attention!

There is no specific need to move SIPPs isa etc to Cyprus. I left mine in the UK. I suspect technically as I am no longer a UK resident I should close bank accounts. NS&I are happy if you are not a UK resident and do give a bit of interest on their bonds. Not top of the tree but at lease there is no 85K limit and they allow up to 1mil in a bond. All fully protected by the treasury.  Probably 2 mil if you are married and have separate accounts.

In my experience Financial Advisors only look to max their income on your money and do not necessarily work in your favour. I am very skeptical of FA's as I have had and seen many bad experiences.

I have not seen any evidence that interest rates are higher in Cyprus than the UK and this is the main reason I left my money in the UK. My wife has 2 UK pensions with big companies and they lose money several years rather than make it. I fail to see how anyone can invest money and lose rather than make. Answer is either they are very poor investors or their fees are too high. My feeling is that the pension administrators should only be able to get their fees from profit they make on your money. That way they have an incentive to do the right thing! As you might have noticed I am not a fan of these so called financial institutions :-/

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