½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

Hi and welcome to ½ûÂþÌìÌà Amy!

I hope the members of the forum will be able to give you some helpful advices.

Regards
Armand

Hi Amy, do you know his full legal name?

Hi Jeff, yes..I do.

Amy, I sent you a private message.

Ammy i would like to suggest u to step back as most of the Jordanians are play boy n that's true I've loved a Jordanian guyÌý you can be his second wife but his first would be an Arabian for sure (may b palestanian) if u can accept it than go a head other wise its up to you

Ammy i would like to suggest u to step back as most of the Jordanians are play boy n that's true I've loved a Jordanian guyÌý you can be his second wife but his first would be an Arabian for sure (may b palestanian) if u can accept it than go a head other wise its up to you

Amy, you really need to go to Jordan, meet his family and check out the whole situation before you get married. I'm Australian and married to a Jordanian. If he is delaying a wedding date, perhaps he doesn't have the right financial situation to be married as he is supposed to provide his wife with a home. If he refuses your request to meet his family, I would forget him and move on. If he really loves you, he'll introduce you to his whole tribe! One thing I can tell you, forget your heart and your head, just listen to your gut feeling. Good luck!

Hello Everyone, I just wanted to say thank you for all the replies to my post. Every reply holds some very raw truths and some great insight in my situation. You all have been very kind.

Jeff, thank you for trying to help me. And yes, his state of poverty in a huge issue for him. I know this. And it may be one of the sole reasons he is less forward with me in granting many of my requests.

Amy

Hi amy,

well let me tell you things form my perspective as a jordanian girl myself.

first of all, jordanian guys are like any other guys some are honest some just try to spend sometime on the internet!

so to be fair, maybe he has serious issues, financial wise or his family does not approve his marriage from non-jordanian woman.

now on the other hand he might really be a married person and just spending time over the internet with women.

either way, i hope he can be honest with you.

Shatha, thank you for your reply. so what do you suggest i do? how would you proceed?

and everyone else.... especially those that are Jordanian. is it acceptable for an American woman to bring her salary to a marriage? am i insulting if i am independent... in the sense that i have a salary and want to bring this to a marriage to contribute to a marriage and home life?

let me add... the man that i speak of is a humble teacher. i know his salary is little. and he has many things to care for in his life. mostly an elderly father who is sick. but, his wealth is not an issue for me. i love him! when i come to Jordan i have a contact and i have a salary that i know could help him and his family greatly. however, his pride to care for me stands in the way. he asks me often.... "Amy, and what will i bring to this marriage?". i tell him, i only need you and your love. but, its not enough for him. and i so love him for that and respect him for that.

but, my fears are often associated with his frequent disappearances and vagueness when i ask to meet his family. i know his family is old school and devote Muslims. but, they are also very friendly with the English culture. i just want to know them and begin a relationship with them. it will help with the waiting... if you know what i mean. errrrr.... i am rambling.

i love the middle eastern culture. and have sought for a very long time a man whom i could love in the middle east and make a life with in his country.

thank you all... for your kindness and understanding. its so nice to have a place where you can express whats going on.

amy

Amy, listen to Shatha. Her advice is solid and unfortunately all too common. Even I have the best situation possible for an american marrying a Jordanian (and his family) but its still not easy. If he's a proud guy regarding the money, family ties, religion and etc I advise you against this match. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but to girls with our values and such someone who is insecure with you will NOT make a good husband anywhere. If his issue is you being independent, he might require you to give up work or study and be a housewife just to save his status as the head of the house. Find out if you would live with or near his family; thats a tough gig. Decide about children, and about whether living in Jordan is permanent. You might like the Arab/Islamic culture from a distance (tv, movies, books, Arab American friends) but it is VERY different living in it. Alot of woman cannot take it after awhile; divorce amongst americans married to arabs is high because of this. All these things you must discuss with him before you make any rash decision. Good luck dear!

Amy, how do you plan to meet him? Are you going to pay for him to come to the States to see you (assuming he can't afford a ticket himself; teachers are pretty poorly paid in Jordan)? Say you go there instead. What happens if he doesn't show up to meet you at the airport?

I doubt if he'll let you speak to his family. I can't imagine they would even know that he had met someone online. His friends might know, but if he comes from a poor conservative family, I can't see him telling them.

In our case, we had been married for months before my husband told his family he had married. And there are some in his family who don't regard our marriage as genuine/sacred/valid in the eyes of Allah to this day.

Wow... poor Deb btw, listen to her.

Just remember, you are marrying a Middle Eastern man, with no one from his family in sight (usually) when you are outside of the Middle East. But once you live there, Noura made a good point; you are married to him AND his family. Well, if you want to see him at all, that is :-).

It's only my experience, but however nice some of them seem, at the end of the day, they are his family, not yours, whatever they say to the contrary. This isn't like the other local sisters in law from a cultural point of view, because usually those sisters in law are also family. Even if they are third cousins, twice removed and brought up in a different country.

I can remember a Lebanese girlfriend of mine telling me about her English sister in law many years ago. She said that this girl was very friendly and was saying to my friend that she felt she had known her all her life and if they hadn't been joined via family she still felt they would have "found each other". But from the sister's point of view, her links to that girl were light (her word for them). She made the point that if it were not for her brother marrying this girl, she herself would have never sought out the company of foreigners. She said that they all come from big families, and, via cousins, brothers and sisters, etc, they have all the friends they are ever going to need.

Since coming back home, I have met quite a few foreign wives who have never met their husband's family. When their husbands go there, they goes alone. Usually it is because they can't all afford to go, but I always wonder in the back of my mind whether it is because they also have wives back home. I didn't meet my husband's family for ten years.

Something to keep in mind with poor families; the housing isn't the best. If you are like me and have spent a fair bit of time living in local housing in the third world, then you probably won't notice, much less care. I didn't notice there were no air conditioners, for example, until someone said something about it. My idea of poor housing is ones which have communal toilets, shared by 8 families. Or where you have to walk 20 minutes to fetch water, and it is always the women who go. Jordanians in and around Amman, however poor, seem to have their own bathrooms and water tanks at the property. But talking to some of the Eastern European women here, who are married to Jordanians, went there to live, and couldn't manage it, so moved over here because their partners didn't want to live in eastern Europe, they all, without exception, complain about the living conditions.

Hello, some messages have been moved to a private forum for analysis.

Thanks,
Harmonie.

Dove,

Good for you!Ìý I am so happy that you were happy, but like you posted earlier this is about Amy's life.Ìý ÌýI never said he comes from a bad family.Ìý I said she has to think if she could accept that way of life.Ìý This is Jordan and it is a completely different way of life than we are used to.Ìý Like in every country there are great and not so great aspects of living there.

But she deserves someone to be brutally honest so she can have many sides of the story and make her own decision.Ìý It is a mans country and he has the rights, mostly. For example, if she doesn't convert she is not entitled to inherit, she also has no right to take the kids back to the US without his permission.Ìý these things need to be taken into consideration.

Someone needed to give her some sensible advice.Ìý Meet his family first, mainly.

I have had great experiences here and I love my husbands family and I live with them as well.Ìý I was also able to meet 2 of his sisters in the states before marriage and have some idea what I was marrying into.Ìý I have been around the Arab culture for years, so I was educated enough without being Arab.Ìý There are huge differences between both cultures so it is a decision that deserves serious contemplation and that was all I was trying to say.

Hello everyone,

i was reading the comments about amy subject, sadly that most of you talk in negative way about his lover, guys she is the one loved him and know him, she choose him not US, maybe he is not laying or hide anything, and for what you said "amy" about when he said what he ll bring to the marriage; i know jordanian men so well because he have the feeling to pay make party make you so happy this feeling for arab man makes him so damn good, i just want to ask the people here "please let her choice its a good thing to ask and to know; but she is the one fall in love with him not US"
Good luck amy may god bless you with happy life with him.

Hello Everyone, thank you so much for your responses and great advice. Mostly, I have resolved myself that without meeting his family I will not proceed with moving to Jordan for him. I agree that all things must be upfront and visible for any good relationship to work. I believe in this man...and I know that under anything that is hidden there is a good heart within him. And maybe you are all correct that his family, finances, village, culture, beliefs and all the other things that could stand in our way will do so... sighs.

But, now none of those impossibilities seem to matter. He has disappeared from me. On July 5th he told me he was traveling to Mecca with his father for four days. And i have not heard from him since. My text messages and phone calls are going unanswered. I fear the worst. This behavior is so unlike him. He has always stayed in contact with me. For the last two years we have communicated several times throughout the week. I am afraid he is dead. I will be honest my heart is breaking in two.

Anyways, thank you all again for your kindness in your responses.

And as a side note...in response to not excepting advice or help from strangers. I disagree...sometimes you need some outside un-bias advice...to see things from a new perspective. And honest, hard truth answer is often hard to hear from a close friend.

Take care everyone,
from one Stranger to another...LOL
Amy

Excerpt taken from law.emory.edu/ifl/legal/jordan.htm

Schools of Fiqh: The Hanafi madhhab is the dominant school in Jordanian law.

Notable Features of Legal System/ History

Marriage Age: 16 for males and 15 for females, lunar calendar; court permission required for females under 18 to marry men older by 20 years or more.

Guardianship: guardian's consent is required for marriage of a female under 18 years, but not for a divorcee or widow over 18 years

Registration: penal sanctions for those in violation of the mandatory registration requirements for marriage and divorce

Polygamy: no constraints aside from classical injunctions that a man must treat all co-wives equitably and provide them with separate dwellings; man must declare his social status in marriage contract.

Obedience/Maintenance: institution of 'house of obedience' is maintained in legislation, but without any forcible execution.

Talaq: talaq uttered while asleep, drunk, in a faint, overwhelmed (madhush), or under coercion have no effect; oaths on talaq and conditional talaq intended to coerce someone into committing or refraining from a particular act are invalid; talaq accompanied by a number in word or gesture, or repeated in a single session, gives rise to a single revocable repudiation.

Judicial Divorce: grounds on which women may seek divorce include: failure to maintain, physical desertion or husband's absence for one year or more, husband's prison sentence of three years or more; both spouses may petition on grounds of 'discord and strife', breach of a binding stipulation of the marriage contract, and various grounds associated with spouse's mental and physical health.

Post-Divorce maintenance/financial arrangements: compensation for arbitrary talaq of a maximum of one year's maintenance; classical rules requiring former husband to pay the divorcee for breastfeeding and undertaking custody of their children are maintained

Child Custody: divorcee is entitled to custody of her children until they reach puberty, subject to classical conditions; other custodians till 9 and 11 males and females.
Succession: changes to classical Hanafi law allow for spouse relict to be included in the radd of the estate; 'obligatory bequests' in favour of orphaned grandchildren is restricted to children of predeceased sons and not daughters

Notable Features in detail:Ìý
�The minimum marriage age is 16 for men and 15 for women (all ages in the personal status law are calculated by the lunar calendar) and the Penal Code provides penalties for all those involved in carrying out underage marriages. An underage marriage can nevertheless be recognised as valid if the wife has fallen pregnant or given birth by the time of a suit to dissolve their marriage coming to court, or if both spouses have by that time reached the minimum age.

Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý In the event of a contract between a woman aged under 18 and a man 20 years or more her senior, the qadi is required to ascertain that the bride has freely given her consent to the marriage and that it is in her interest. The consent of the guardian is required for a female aged under 18 to marry, but not for a divorc�e or widow aged over 18; the law thus implicitly requires the consent of the guardian to the first marriage of a woman of any age, although the qadi can over-ride the wali's refusal if it has no justification in law. Criminal sanctions are provided for those violating the mandatory registration requirements for marriage and divorce.

There are no constraints on polygamy beyond the classical injunctions that a man must treat co-wives equitably and provide them with separate dwellings. The registration fee for a polygamous contract of marriage is higher than that for a monogamous union.
The marriage contract requires a man to disclose his social status to the woman he is marrying, but there is no requirement that an existing wife be notified of a subsequent polygamous marriage by her husband.[u]
[/u]
The institution of the "house of obedience" is maintained but without forcible execution of an "obedience" ruling made against the wife beyond disqualifying her from maintenance rights against her husband.

As elsewhere in the region, talaq uttered by a man who is drunk, asleep, in a faint, coerced, or 'overwhelmed' (madhush) has no effect, while oaths on talaq and conditional talaq do not give rise to talaq if the intention was to get someone to do or not do something. A "triple talaq" as in talaq accompanied by a number in word or sign or- significantly- repeated in a single session has the effect of a single revocable talaq only. To give rise to the greater finality of irrevocable talaq, three talaqs must be pronounced not only separately but in three separate sessions.

Grounds for which the wife may petition for divorce are similar to those introduced elsewhere in the region from the time of the OLFR.They include failure to maintain, physical desertion or the absence of the husband for a year or more, a prison sentence of three years or more, "discord and strife", breach of a binding stipulation in the marriage contract, and various grounds associated with the mental and physical health of the husband (the latter also being entitled to petition for divorce on similar health grounds). The law allows either party to insert stipulations into the contract and to sue for dissolution if they are broken. Either spouse may also petition for divorce on the grounds of discord and strife.

The law provides for compensation for arbitrary talaq up to a maximum of the equivalent of a year's maintenance for the wife divorced 'without legitimate cause' and retains the classical rules requiring the ex-husband to pay for his divorced wife breastfeeding and undertaking custody of their children. A divorced mother is entitled to custody of her children until they reach puberty, subject to the classical conditions. During marriage, the wife has no financial obligations for her own upkeep and her medical expenses are included in the maintenance she is due from her husband. In the area of succession, changes to classical Hanafi law have been made in allowing the spouse relict to share in the radd or proportional return of the remainder of the estate to those holding fixed shares, should circumstances so permit; and in providing for the 'obligatory bequest' (al-wasiya al-wajiba) to orphaned grandchildren, although restricting this to the grandchildren through predeceased sons, not daughters.

Hope this helps those who are going for "possible marriage to a man from Jordan"...
All the best
Regards
(Flowerinjannah)

Serving the Humanity is serving to my RaBB

As I read all the opinions I was thinking to post this info..for a long time..
I like to signpost people in the direction that is authentic and reliable..I dont like to comment what people may have done ...which could be "two to tango" or be a real victim in the scenario.
On a personal note: I had started to post -" Help urgently required"...
And i appreciate the valuable help..here

Now to update it:
My ex- husband who had given only one talaq, is still keen to re-marry
He is Jordanian..with time, he is returning the big £..and wants to return all b4 02/13, god willing

He does have a first Arab Mrs.I wudn't mind that as I am a practising Muslima, but he "must treat all co-wives equitably and provide them with separate dwellings; "I am a very easy going simple lady, so being second isn't a BIG matter..

Now I have requested him to introduce me to his father, who can speak English..So I would seek his consent to our re-marriage...The fact that I have given time has particularly helped..though I do point him that the £ does need to be sent as quickly..which he has agreed himself.

Apart from this...I will ask about my share if a divorce occurs( Allah forbid)...there are many other important things than marriage for me..like Arabic learning in the whole family..Allah willing ..my race is for Jannah..and my wish is to be the Queen of all of his wives in Jannah...not this Duniya..
Ramadhan Kareem to all fellow Muslims on the forum...

Wassalam
Flowerinjannah

DoveOmeri, I did not say he has been missing for only four days. I stated he was going to Mecca for four days. That was on July 5th. I have not heard from him since July 4th. It is now July 20th. It been 16 days since I have heard from him. And yes, I am terribly worried about him.

Hope is the best rope...Be optimistic ..This has happened many times to me as well. and when he returns ..I end up loving him all over again...May be he has lost the phone...

Persevere is the word ...and pray to ur lord for his safe return. Panicking will not help .."After difficulty is ease..for those who persevere.."that is what I firmly believe from my religion, Islam. And it surely keeps me strong even when I have horrible days to go thru'
Regards
flowerinjannah

Amy,

It's possible that your partner told his father he was intending to marry a foreigner, and the father, not wanting this to happen, whisked his son off to Mecca to impress on him his duty to Allah AND his family.Ìý If he had already been promised to someone in the wider family, and now wants to get out of it and marry you, this could be a very big deal and bring shame on the father's branch of the family. Despite Islam allowing 4 wives, this doesn't mean that an Arab woman would want her husband to take even a second wife, let alone a third or fourth one. Maybe in very rich families having 4 wives would be a lifestyle decision. And for sure there would be cases where the brother dies and another brother takes the widow as a second wife, just to preserve her honour and status within the family.

To me it sounds like he has gone to Mecca and come back agreeing to marry someone of his father's choosing and not his. Sorry to say, but not an unusual situation where the family feels threatened by the intrusion of foreign blood into their line.

deb568 wrote:

Amy,

It's possible that your partner told his father he was intending to marry a foreigner, and the father, not wanting this to happen, whisked his son off to Mecca to impress on him his duty to Allah AND his family.Ìý If he had already been promised to someone in the wider family, and now wants to get out of it and marry you, this could be a very big deal and bring shame on the father's branch of the family. Despite Islam allowing 4 wives, this doesn't mean that an Arab woman would want her husband to take even a second wife, let alone a third or fourth one. Maybe in very rich families having 4 wives would be a lifestyle decision. And for sure there would be cases where the brother dies and another brother takes the widow as a second wife, just to preserve her honour and status within the family.

To me it sounds like he has gone to Mecca and come back agreeing to marry someone of his father's choosing and not his. Sorry to say, but not an unusual situation where the family feels threatened by the intrusion of foreign blood into their line.

Although this is true, it tends to occur more the man is younger and more Impressionable. In this example, given the man's age and life experiences, I doubt this is the case.

Hi Deb and Jeff, thanks for your responses. I have to agree with Jeff's thoughts. I believe this trip to Mecca was a spiritual journey for him and his dad. His dad is quiet old and perhaps will be his last trip to Mecca given his medical condition. And actually we talked about making the trip to Mecca as a couple next year. I am really at a loss as to what has happened to him. I'm not sure who to contact to find out if something has happened to him. I have tried searching Jordan newspapers online to see if I can locate any notices regarding him, to no avail. So, i wait and continue to text and call him. He did tell me before leaving he would not be renewing his internet for the month of July. So I am hoping come August he will try and contact me through the net. Maybe he also did not renew his phone time. I know money was tight for him this month due to the trip to Mecca.

Take care everyone!

dont do it.

amynycole, if you believe "this trip to Mecca was a spiritual journey for him and his dad."..then you may also believe that Allah will protect him when they are his guests.

" I am really at a loss as to what has happened to him." and Allah protects them and looks after them in his hse just like when guests arrive at our homes and we try to look after them as much as we can...

"So I am hoping come August he will try and contact me through the net."...Be patient...and confide in your lord...

Well Everyone, he made contact with me last night! I can't describe how relieved and happy I am to know he is ok. He stayed in Mecca for a little over two weeks. Somehow in our communication I misunderstood his length of stay. Sometimes things can be misunderstood in our chatting due to the language barrier. Errrr! But, he is back in Jordan and well. The trip to Mecca was very difficult for his aging father. He will spend some time in the hospital now trying to regain his strength and health.

I just wanted to say thank you to all who commented and tried to support me with advice and encouragement. Especially to flowerinjannah... i quote: "you may also believe that Allah will protect him when they are his guests." I found such comfort in these words, thank you.

And DoveOmeri, thank you for your latest comment. Your words bring a renewed hope into my heart.

I do believe this man is the love of my life and my destiny. I get frustrated at times because of our distance from one another. And his monetary challenges. But, he is a good man and worries that he must be able to financially be ready to marry. And i can respect that. Although the waiting sometimes feels like it will kill me. I know he takes marriage as a responsibility. Well, I am off to face the day with a much lighter heart knowing he is ok and still wonderfully in my life and heart.

Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's.Ìý
The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so.
good luck.

Alhamdulillah, thanks to Allah..
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... now that he is back you are happy..
Recall what I had Said??? .".Hope is the best rope...Be optimistic ..This has happened many times to me as well. and when he returns ..I end up loving him all over again.

" I just wanted to say thank you to all who commented and tried to support me with advice and encouragement. Especially to flowerinjannah... i quote: "you may also believe that Allah will protect him when they are his guests." I found such comfort in these words, thank you."


You are welcome..my friend..A small request to you ...Tell your partner to make Dua for me and my family for easy re-union with me hubby in Jo ...as he has just arrived from Umrah..and his prayers are accepted...

Come on..then u must be ready for a party tonight???

a party would be nice...LOL

tell me flowerinjannah (my new friend), how do the middle eastern woman party? smiles

Amy,
Have you met your partner in the flesh, or just online?
From what I see here, online relationships seems to be common for Arab males, and conducted quite separately from their day to day lives. I suppose it enables them to have friendships without the inconvenience or complications that would ensue if they were to meet face to face. Even if your friend re-establishes contact, how do you propose to meet him?

Hi Deb, sadly, no i have never met him in person. we have been talking online for about two years. my plans are to go to Jordan the first of next year so we can marry. he has had an outstanding medical bill he has been paying on for the last year that occured with his father having open heary surgery. the bill should be paid for in complete in Nov or Dec of this year. after this he feels he can take on an added expense of marriage.

Unfortunately for the ladies who are in a Disney movie right now, I happen to agree with Deb. I've been personally contacted by waaaay too many women with this exact issue to whom I've given the same advice: some things are worth fighting for; some aren't. All of these scenarios are by logic and Murphy's Law listed under future disappointments. I'm sorry ladies, but without an emotionless review of your own circumstances, no matter your ages or experiences, you cannot hope to make the best decision and you cannot possibly see both the dangers before you all. Anything is possible over the internet. Lies are the most common and easiest things to maintain when someone is 6000 miles from you. I would not recommend the path I took towards my marriage to anyone; it was a shot in the dark and it could have ended in disaster. Praise and all thanks to Allah that most things have blossomed; but also credit due to my own calculating and critical nature that has served me well over my own emotions. Allah guide you and watch over you.

hey Amy some of that said is true and some is totally untrue it is every ones experience and if he went to Mecka for Orah it takes 2 weeks to come back follow yr heart and use yr mind and protect yr self and and it is not easy to know if he is hiding things if you send me his full name i will try my best to get y the info you need it is easy to know if he has a wife here and ! good luck

Amy,
It seems to me if a man is alone in a place like Jordan and he has the chance to marry with someone he believes is compatible then he will want to marry sooner rather than later. Even if they meet online. This wasn't an option when I married, - the internet in its commercial form didn't exist - but nowadays among young people maybe this is an acceptable way to meet.

If, on the other hand, he already has an Arabian wife, so his needs are met,then there is no need to rush things along from his side. It seems, short of gathering the required money together yourself and financing your own trip to Jordan, there is no way to be in control of this situation. Would I recommend that course of action? No, but it must be hard trying to have a relationship that is all at the whim and initiation of the other party, whom you can't call - he doesn't answer the phone, or attempt to contact via the internet and no one responds from the other end.

I hope all goes well for you in the end. You're in my prayers.

My advise is to step back and move on in your life
This is a bad adventure , I don't trust all what he said to you

Listen to an Arab man on this one, kiddo...Sweilem is right.