½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

Just as a reminder, but you could always turn off your PM setting, that way people will not be able to send you any PM's.

Nothing to do with anything I have asked, but I have turned off my PM setting simply because the amount of spam PM's being sent from people wanting to become 'friends' etc 'yea'

On some forums I like it where people have to have a minimum of maybe 10 posts before being able to send anyone a PM.

Hi Phil. Thanks for the reply. I think people are put off by my profile which states that no recently joined local is going to become my friend because I am certainly not going to dish out money to them! I've gone through all this before while living in the developing world. Because of that, I seem to have received fewer messages than you have! However, they do still come on occasion.

Unfortunately, there have been no replies on the substantive question I posed, so I guess I am going to be on my own to do research on the ground, as it were, when I arrive in six days time. I'll report back to the board on my findings for future expats and visitors.

Bear in mind that same-sex activity is illegal in Morocco, although it may only be enforced sporadically. It can result in imprisonment for anywhere from a few months to several years.

You should respect the local cultural and religious beliefs:

1. Avoid all public expression of affection, no hand holding, kissing, hugging, etc., in public. Better not to attract attention than to try and resolve prolems later.

2.  Avoid relationships with others even appear very young and could be thought to be underaged.

3.  There are NO specific rights for members of the LGBT community in Morocco so if you're asked to leave an establishment for any reason, don't argue the point (remember you're not at home where such a demand might be against the law).

4.  When abroad DISCRETION is always the best policy.

Hope this is of some help to you. 

Cheers,
James
Expat-blog Experts Team

James wrote:

2.  Avoid relationships with others who are minors or even appear very young and could be thought to be underaged.


Cheers,
James
Expat-blog Experts Team

Wow James. After admiring some of your posts in the past, I have to deplore this implication that gay guys are into paedophilia. It's so disgraceful, I'm asking you to remove it.

You are aware, I take it, that all figures, from all countries, show that the overwhelming majority of paedophiles is heterosexual? I just don't know where you get off with posting this stuff. In addition, it's moot (quite apart from moral considerations) as there is no age of consent in Morocco as all relations outside of marriage are forbidden, even hetero ones.

I'll be really fed up if this thread gets closed down because of this. Please remove that part of your post.

Sven,

No such implication intended other than advice... this is exactly why I extended the advice to cover anyone who looked young enough to be confused with a minor. Pure and simple, just sound advice for anyone.

You have no idea exactly how many gay friends I have, I've personally stopped counting I have that many. I have also in my capacity here on EB devoted literally hundreds of hours of my time and efforts to assist all members of the LGBT community with issues surrounding immigration, coming to Brazil and getting married, etc.

I know through my personal friendships that gays are not pedophiles, that is not the point of the advice. The point is that in the twisted perception of many heterosexuals they are, or at the very least could be and this is why I offered the advice in the first place. Age prejudice exists in many countries; those of us who are old are often seen as much older than we are and we're discriminated agains. Young people, likewise, are often seen as much younger than they are and discriminated against. Many societies have very stong reactions when they see couples where there is a great age difference. This will only compound the discrimination that one would face when you're talking about same-sex relationships. Dealing with one prejudice is enough, often dealing with the two combined is impossible.

I'm truly sorry that you seized upon that one piece of advice and misinterpreted its intention or meaning. It was no way intended to offend anyone. It was given simply as advice, because all of us, straight, gay, bi, red, green or blue tend to follow our hearts and not our heads when it comes to personal relationships.

You're going to a country where you will be facing a great deal of discrimination to begin with. That's going to be enough on your plate to deal with. The advice given was strictly intended to help you avoid putting anything else on your plate too. I hope that now, you can accept that advice in the spirit in which it was intended, and not jump to any conclusions about its interpretation.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team.

Sven,

Just to clear up any abiguity that may exist, and to help calm you down; I have edited my original posting to make its intention even clearer.

Perhaps I could have worded it more carefully in the first place, but we are all human after all and do make mistakes. Again I am truly sorry if you misunderstood the intention of the advice.

Cheers,
James

The advice given by James is entirely reasonable, and equally applies to anyone, regardless of sexuality.
Asia has its problems as so many local girls look young anyway, even when they hit their 20s, many look 14 or 15. That might very well apply to guys in your intended neck of the woods.

I believe what James is saying is, be careful not to get pulled into a relationship with a minor, even if you think he's older.
When in a country where your actions are illegal, keep your head down and avoid places that might get raided.
Of course, I would always suggest not breaking local laws is the best course, but I can see how that would be inconsistent with living your life.

Local sex laws also applies to other groups.

All persons of the opposite sex who are not related by marriage, and have sexual relations with each other, are punishable by imprisonment for one month to one year.

Actually, the exact same piece of advice is given in a short article in the UK newpaper The Guardian, in a way that is much less diplomatic in its wording, so much so that it almost appears homophobic and it was written by a gay male.



Sven, I certainly hope that in retrospect you can now understand the real intention of my advice. I can't put myself in your position for obvious reasons (I'm an old man, I'm hetero, I'm not into the bar scene, etc., etc.,) but I can imagine what young gay people must face each and every day of their lives. That said, many people see the boogey man where none exists. Perhaps you're just being overly sensitive on this particular comment and reading too much into it? At any rate I do hope that my sincere apology for the initial wording has been sufficient.

Cheers,
James
Expat-blog Experts Team

Thank you James, even though I am still smarting!

To me, it's an indication of the depth of (internalised) prejudice when even a gay guy advises other gay people not to chase "underage" lads. This is not what being gay is about. It is the same as being straight in this aspect inasmuch as people seek other adults as their partners. They may have a prediliction for older or younger partners than themselves but, essentially, these partners will be adults To chase underage people is being neither gay nor straight, it is being paedophilic.

I do accept that you meant no harm at all! Please think about my POV though and try to understand it. It's an oft-levelled charge that gay guys are kiddy-fiddlers! This is not the case.

I shall have to see what develops now that I am here in Casablanca. I shall report back on any places gay guys can feel safe in if I find them.

I do understand your point of view quite well Sven, as I do have many very close friends in the GLBT community. No harm, no foul.

Regarding the age discrimination and the automatic thought of "pedofilia" I'm acutely aware of that because of my own situation. I'm 65 years of age and my wife is just 29. Despite the fact that we have a great marriage and a beautiful seven and a half year old son many people look at me like some kind of dirty old man, cradle robber and pedophile. They don't stop to think for one moment that she was over 21 when we got together, an adult with full capacity to reason for herself and make her own choices. Even here in Brazil where age differences aren't as big a deal as they are in many countries, we still raise a few eyebrows.

Cheers,
James

Needless to say, I wouldn't ask about gay places in any Muslim-majority country. Which might explain the lack of replies from local members who probably do know of such places. But I can understand why you would do it on the Morocco forum, given that it's not a religious country at all, and many don't practice, so will be relaxed about things that are forbidden in other more conservative countries.

I am not sure about in Casablanca, but from my friends who are native to the area, I have heard that it is easier to find such places in Agadir.  If you get the chance to make a weekend trip there, it's a lovely beach city.

amahoney13 wrote:

I am not sure about in Casablanca, but from my friends who are native to the area, I have heard that it is easier to find such places in Agadir.  If you get the chance to make a weekend trip there, it's a lovely beach city.

I had heard this too, but it's a 10 hour journey by coach! And flying would probably be too expensive.

I'm not necessarily looking for contacts, but just a place gay people can feel safe, a "gay-friendly" bar or cafe. Somewhere to wind down, without complications, after work. I may have found one already, the Cafe Ramses in the city centre where I have seen a few people my gaydar spotted as gay.

SvenStockholm wrote:

I'm not necessarily looking for contacts, but just a place gay people can feel safe, a "gay-friendly" bar or cafe.

Why put yourself in that situation? To live in a country where it's not accepted, and thus looking for somewhere to feel safe. Has work forced you to live in a such a country that doesn't tolerate your orientation? Or I suppose there are other aspects that you enjoy about the country, and willing to compromise.

I've moved here because of work. I tend to hang around in gay cafes and bars in Stockholm too! So maybe I didn't mean "safe" but "at ease".

However, so far I have not felt unsafe in Morocco, although I am not overtly "gay-acting".

Hi every one, there is a lot of nice places where you can enjoy safely in casablanca. I am from the area and i think after all you have  to be carefull becaise homosexuality is illegal in morocco, also casablanca is a big city where the popular places are unfortunatly much more homophobic, but the center ville is a nice place, also there is a lot of nice clubs in "ain diab" where gay and hetero meet without any problem at all. Some bars in the center of the city are great like "caffe les fleurs" or "caffe ramses".

You wont find that here,here people muslim and they dont let gays im sorry

Hi Sven,
If, you're still a member please contact me. I'm an American originally from Boston who is now living in California.. Santa Barbara which is about one hour north of Los Angeles. I've lived in Germany, Switzerland and France, and I'm hoping to spend some time in Morocco.
Your posts are in line with my thinking.
Thanks in advance.... je veux dire.., merci
Sincerely,
Richard