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Hi seoulguy,

I always miss about half the conversations, so if I did with this one, just ignore me.  If you are only looking for San Juan, ignore me as well.  But, if not, Rincon is fantastic. We are two hours from SJ on west side.  I don't have a car.  I can walk to downtown from my Stella neighborhood.  The library is about a mile.  Downtown is about a mile.  School is close (probably not relevant for you, but it is close to me ) People are cautious here.  Like, we lock our gates at night.  We make sure not to leave things out, but I know the neighbors. Very family oriented There's not a lot of money, but there are no real crime problems here.  And, there are chickens everywhere.  Very important to have the chickens walking around .

Liz

I posted this summary to a previous thread (/forum/viewtopic.p … 96#2599748):

Obviously, one should exercise caution everywhere with regards to safety. Consider the following a rule-of-thumb with regard to the tourist neighborhoods of the San Juan metropolitan area.

All of Old San Juan is safe & very touristy. A beautiful place to visit. Up to 15,000 cruise ship passengers disembark to OSJ every day, which means it can get a little busy (& touristy!) depending on the time of day & year. If you have a car or rental car, parking is a pain in the butt - although there are several parking garages and the rates are not too bad by U.S. standards. One of the few highly walkable neighborhoods on the island. Rental apartments abound. Some are reasonable in price. There are also a range of smaller boutique hotels, and a couple of large hotels on the fringes.

Puerta de Tierra is the stretch of land connecting Old San Juan to the rest of the city. Most parts are safe during the day, but should be avoided at night. There are some apartment buildings in this area that probably have tourist rentals - but I'm not aware of any hotels. Not particularly walkable.

Paseo Caribe is a small commercial area with hotels (such as the Caribe Hilton), a few restaurants & stores, and some high-end condominium apartments. Safe night or day due to lots of security around the hotels.

Condado is extremely popular with tourists & also extremely safe. Reminiscent of Miami Beach in some ways. Also quite walkable. Also somewhat difficult to park without paying for it. Mostly high-rise apartment buildings. I'm sure that there are lots of short-term tourist rentals there, and there are a number of major hotels (but these are quite expensive).

Ocean Park (which consists of one gated beach neighborhood called 'Ocean Park' and the surrounding area) is quite safe, although one should be cautious at night particularly south of Avenida McCleary / Ashford. There is a housing project (caserio) called Llorens south of Parque Barbosa towards the east end of Ocean Park that is extremely dangerous (evidently - I, of course, have never been there). Ocean Park is mostly houses & small apartment buildings. I bet there are lots of short-term rentals here, although I have not investigated it. Parking is easy as you can park on the street on gated streets & many houses have driveways.

Punta las Marias is kind of between Ocean Park & Isla Verde (part of the metro area, but technically part of Carolina, not San Juan). This area consists of a few gated streets by the ocean. I understand that the gated streets are relatively safe, but this neighborhood is also very close to the Llorens housing project, so one should be careful in this area.

Isla Verde, actually part of Carolina, this is the stretch of coast immediately west of the international airport. This is a safe touristy area with many large beachside high-rise condominium apartment buildings. Most of Isla Verde is safe to walk night or day. I don't find this area particularly interesting, but it is another quite walkable area as there is even supermarkets that can be walked to easily from most of Isla Verde. There are also a number of high & mid-range hotels in Isla Verde.

Miramar is actually on the south side of the lagoon from Condado. This area has a few hotels and probably also has some short-term vacation rental apartments as well. This is a safe & walkable neighborhood - but the area that is safe & walkable is somewhat small, and if you stray beyond it you are in an area of Santurce that is not particularly safe (especially not at night). Parking here on the street is not too bad - and relatively safe (for your car).

Hato Rey is the business district & includes the "milla de oro" (golden mile) consisting of the PR headquarters of banks, investment firms, and the like. There are also a number of luxury high-rise apartment buildings and the coliseum of Puerto Rico (nicknamed the 'Choliseo'). This area is safe, but because it is primarily a business district the streets at night are quiet & thus should be avoided for this reason.

Rio Piedras is the area containing the main campus of the University of Puerto Rico. The campus is beautiful and there is at least one museum on campus that is open the general public. There are also events at the the Teatro de UPR which is also very beautiful. Rio Piedras as a whole, however, is not particularly safe (although the area around the university during the day is completely fine).

Santurce is the area east of Miramar & south of Ocean Park & Condado. Santurce contains the Art Museum of PR, the Contemporary Art Museum of PR, the Plaza del Mercado (an outdoor market), many historic buildings, some cool restaurants, and lots of street art including many amazing murals. (Look up Santurce murals on Google and you will find many examples.) Santurce is fine to drive through, and the main roads such as Avenida Ponce de Leon are fine to walk down during the day; however Santurce is generally considered to be unsafe at night.

Of these neighborhoods, I have only *lived* in Miramar, but friends are in OSJ, Condado, Ocean Park, and even Rio Piedras.

Miramar is very safe & relatively quiet if you are not close to Ponce de Leon or Juan Fernandez Juncos avenues. It is a middle/upper-middle/upper class neighborhood. You can actually probably live without a car here too, as there is a full service grocery store, pharmacy, movie theater, parks, beaches nearby; and it is a slightly longer walk to other amenities such as the Centro de Bellas Artes, the Museo del Arte de Puerto Rico, the contemporary art museum, and the Ballet de San Juan. It is also easy to catch a bus from here to the Tren Urbano or to Old San Juan.

Old San Juan is very safe due to the high police presence - but very touristy. Also has grocery stores & many other walkable stores and amenities. I know a number of people who own apartments here & they love it. More noisy than Miramar, and very busy during the day.

Condado is also touristy & safe. I have never felt unsafe in Condado day or night. It is a little touristy & noisy at street level, but I'm guessing if you are on the 14th floor of a condo apartment building overlooking the lagoon or the ocean it would be quiet. Some friends live on the 18th floor of a building towards the west end of Condado & they have spectacular views - plus that means you will have amazing breezes year round.

Ocean Park, within the gated community of Ocean Park, is very safe - although somewhat dark & quiet at night. A friend had his car robbed - but I think he left it unlocked by accident & it was parked on the street. My two friends who live in Ocean Park absolutely love it. Ocean Park outside the gated area is a little bit more questionable - particularly close to the 'Llorens' public housing project. This area is also quite walkable with relatively easy access to stores, etc.

Isla Verde is also reputed to be super safe and is very walkable. (There are at least two large grocery stores that are walking distance.) Again, the end of Isla Verde closest to Llorens is generally considered less safe at night. The real estate inventory over here is almost all high-rise condo apartment buildings, so that is a little bit different from the other neighborhood. Also lots of gringos over here!

I know very little about Bayamon & Guaynabo.

The crime trend in San Juan is going in the right direction now (i.e., declining) and crime in PR is almost always drug-related, even when it's not.

seoulguy wrote:

My first encounter with PR was 45 years ago.  Used a condo on Magdalena Street.  Building is still there, but I'm sure the neighborhood is nothing like it was then.

This is a very nice area of Condado. If I was going to live in Condado I might choose Calle Luchetti, which is just south of Calle Magdalena, or Calle Washington, which is at the east end of Calle Luchetti & Calle Magdalena. In Condado, I would say everything north of Calle Wilson up to about Avenida de Diego is safe; and then after Ave. de Diego (which itself is somewhat sketchy), I would stay north of Ave. Ashford/McCleary.

For us, we didn't want to be in the busy city, so we are in the process of buying in Caguas, in a really nice urbanization called Hacienda San Jose.  Caguas is kind of in the mountains, and only 25 minutes to San Juan without traffic.  During rush hour it is much worse in both directions.  We like Caguas because it has everything we want, and is really nice (comparatively speaking).

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the note.

However, for the untold millions of you who drive, of course, where to live is not a problem.

When you don't drive, it's always limiting problem. I considered Rio Grande with one AMA
route.  But what happens when you make a doc/dentists appointment, and the bus
never shows up. I've had early years of experience with AMA, and it can and does happen.

Guaynabo was an afterthought, but even if some docs are Board certified (many in Guaynabo),
hospitals are apparently well below CMS standards, so, thanks, but no thanks.

DM

We moved to Old San Juan 7 months ago because we wanted to be immersed in the culture, live in the Old City, etc. etc. etc.  We are now moving to Fajardo.  As much as we loved the amazing ocean view we have, it is very noisy and during high season is very crowded.  We are moving to escape the noisy traffic, plus getting more space for our money.  We did love it in OSJ, it was fun for a while.  Fajardo is more the pace we are used to.  Hate giving up the view, but won't missing having to constantly scrape the "rust" and wet feeling off our furniture.