禁漫天堂

That's an interesting question Christine.

This is my second time to live in Indonesia, and prior to this I lived in Malaysia for quite a long time. Prior to that I either lived or worked in another five other Asian countries. Maybe I am in the minority of local foreign posters living in Indonesia who feels this way, but I cannot rule out moving to other countries in the future. However, for the moment Indonesia is my home.

I believe that life is a journey and I want to experience lots of different cultures in my lifetime while I still can. And I feel that even though for now Indonesia is still fresh and interesting, there may be a time in the future when I will be looking for a change, although not for the foreseeable future.

My last place to live was Malaysia, and I stayed there far too long. I began to ask myself "what on earth am I doing living here?". The truth is that it started to become boring. I also realized that as my partner and children held Indonesian nationality, then it would be great for my children to grow up in Indonesia, and thus moved to Indonesia. For that I have absolutely no regrets.

As I grow older, I do occasionally think about medical problems and I personally feel that medical care in some other countries is better than in Indonesia. Of course some of you will disagree, but that is my personal feeling.

But for now, I have absolutely no regrets in moving here. In particular, I feel that I have chosen one of the best cities in Indonesia to settle down in and it feels like home.

Christine wrote:

Hi all,

If you had to look back on your expat experience in Indonesia, would you heartily say "lets do it again"?

NOT A HOPE - If I knew than what I know now, I would have come out here 20 years before I did.

Christine wrote:

From the preparation stage

What preparation; do some people actually make plans before they totally change their lives and move to a new country?

Christine wrote:

what did you enjoy the most?

Tough question. It's a toss up between the amazingly friendly people and the amazingly delicious food.
The culture of generally being nice to people is pretty sweet as well.

Christine wrote:

Would you do certain things differently? Could you tell us why?

Only in that I would have robbed a bank before moving out here. I had no idea Indonesia and the UK didn't have an extradition treaty.
Other than that, just the bit about moving out here 20 years before I did.

Christine wrote:

How would you describe the benefits of your expatriation in Indonesia so far?

A very nice life surrounded by lovely people, and the food is fantastic, especially the sambal.

Christine wrote:

Thank you in advance for sharing your experience. We look forward to hearing from you!

Christine

You're welcome.

I was originally here for work , now聽 because of marriage , I dont find the food particularly good as fred does , I prefer cantonese聽 indian or thai in asia , the聽 people are ok , honestly speaking聽 in all the countries iv lived , iv kept a distance generally from most of the locals , because the smile can turn into a sneer , and they can be dangerous for your continued stay.
Ya in all developing countries the xenophobia , corruption, bureaucracy is tedious .
on the up side I live near some nice beaches and of course the weather is good.
I agree with hanson the health care here is not as good as many asian countries , at the end of the day they are our first point of contact in the "golden hour" should聽 you be unfortunate to have an event , no matter how good your insurance may be .

I'm having a pretty good time here, and I fully expect to snuff it and end up in a hole, probably in Central Java, but I don't suppose I'll much care where the worms eat me.
A little corner of an Indonesian field that will be forever not England. (Apologies to Rupert Brooke for that one)

Indonesia is a wonderful country, populated by wonderful people, and wonderful lunchtimes filled with wonderful food.
I really don't see me ever leaving, and would be most sad should I ever have to.

hhh... I lived there for 3 years... and I wish if I could fly right now and land into those amazingly beautiful Islands... Most beautiful thing in Indonesia is no doubt "People of Indonesia".... very kind, helpful and with smiling faces... At least with my limited experience of meeting people of few other nations in Asia and Europe I had never see such wonderful people as Indonesians... Food is really great and very delicious... I miss Nasi Padang, Sate kambing.... I can never forget the early mornings of Jugja when u come out and buy "sarapan" from Ibu-ibu sitting in the calm and cool streets of Jugja... Oh God when I can get back there?? to that piece of Paradise....

One of the thing I always find hard in Bali, Indonesia is the low quantity of street name signs.
If I knew, I would have used more聽 补苍诲听 to avoid getting lost so often

Nevertheless I am very happy because here in Bali I can find all the services and products that I need. I never ordered something online because I couldn't find it anywhere in Bali.

Regards,
Xavier

鈥淟ate to the party鈥� (as usual) but thinking about this question quite a bit since you first posted it Christine. That question being, 鈥淚n retrospect, would you move again to Indonesia?鈥澛� For me personally I have to rephrase the question a bit, 鈥淚n retrospect, would you move again to Indonesia had you not fallen in love with an Indonesian?鈥澛�

For many of us expats, our 鈥渇alling in love with Indonesia鈥� came at about the exact same time as we fell in love with an Indonesian.聽 So, I guess the real question for many of us, is鈥�without falling in love with an Indonesian, would you have fallen in love with Indonesia?

Personally, I鈥檇 prefer to say something like, you bet, I would have fallen in love with Indonesia without falling in love with an Indonesian鈥�but I鈥檓 honestly not that certain.聽 At about the same time Bali grabbed my attention, I was also very much enamored by Thailand which has many similar characteristics to Bali.聽 Truth be told, had I fallen in love with a Thai lady, I could just as easily moved to Thailand as I did Bali.聽 And for me personally, given my multitude of trips to Thailand well before ever setting foot on Bali in 1996, Thailand, (even without the personal relationship) would have likely won out at that time.聽

Of course now, today, and considering what was my own personal experience, I would of course say in a heart beat, YES鈥�I would once again move to Indonesia.聽 But, with the enthusiasm of that response would come a bit of a caveat鈥�that being, so long as I met the Princess of my dreams, the mother of my three sons to come, and a family which defines Bali for me more than all the postcard photos could ever convey.

I agree with your views ubudian, without the right partner in life indonesia is just another asian country .聽 for sure you can find better beaches in thail补苍诲听 , better food in many asian聽 countries, for my taste .

Ubudian it's always a pleasure to read your post, you remind me my father with his writing skill (in Fench), we can feel that you write by experience. Vous avez une belle plume!

I totally agree with you

Matur suksama to you both, gentlemen.聽 I try my best to be totally honest, albeit sometimes it鈥檚 via Ahok style鈥�blunt and direct.

As foreigners in Indonesia, we all share a common brotherhood, or sisterhood, both with each other, and with our Indonesian brothers and sisters.聽 There is no point in being less than totally honest with each other, nor is there any point in allowing our ego to cause us to stumble.

Xavier, there is no greater compliment a man can possibly have during their life than being favorably compared to another man鈥檚 father.聽 For any man, that is the ultimate compliment, and I only hope I am worthy of it.聽 聽

Once again, thank you both for your kind comments.聽

Cheers!聽 -Roy

tel522 wrote:

I agree with your views ubudian, without the right partner in life indonesia is just another asian country .聽 for sure you can find better beaches in thail补苍诲听 , better food in many asian聽 countries, for my taste .

I'm unsure that's true.
Malaysia is a very nice country, one I could easily and happily live in, but Thailand is totally different and somewhere I would really dislike to live.
Indonesia is similar in some respects, but has its own charm and personality that sets it apart from so many other countries.

Fred, I think most folks who know both Bali and Thailand well would also say that鈥檚 where the similarity ends鈥�Thailand to Bali鈥�period.聽 Thailand is, as you know, predominantly Buddhist with Hindu mixed in, and Bali is predominantly Hindu, with Buddhism mixed in.聽 The cultural similarities are unmistakable鈥�such as dance, visual art and even architecture.聽 In Thailand there are 鈥渟pirit houses鈥� everywhere, and in Bali, there are temples everywhere and in both places daily offerings of flowers and endless burning of incense.聽

The similarities between Thailand and Bali are very, very close, including the friendly manner of both peoples.聽

I鈥檝e been to Malaysia a number of times, and in my experience found the locals to be not as friendly as your typical Indonesian鈥�regardless of where in Indonesia they are from.聽 Of course that鈥檚 just my own experience, but I could never envision myself living in Malaysia.聽 聽I鈥檒l take Bangkok any day over either KL or the city state known as Singapore.聽 But again, that鈥檚 just a matter of personal taste.

I hate to say this, but if in fact you wouldn鈥檛 be happy in Thailand, then most likely you wouldn鈥檛 be happy in Bali either.聽 No big deal about that鈥�rather, just an observation.

Fred wrote:

tel522 wrote:

I agree with your views ubudian, without the right partner in life indonesia is just another asian country .聽 for sure you can find better beaches in thail补苍诲听 , better food in many asian聽 countries, for my taste .

I'm unsure that's true.
Malaysia is a very nice country, one I could easily and happily live in, but Thailand is totally different and somewhere I would really dislike to live.
Indonesia is similar in some respects, but has its own charm and personality that sets it apart from so many other countries.

The problem with Thailand is that most foreigners only visit the resort places, Pattaya, Phuket, Koh Samui, Chiang Mai, Bangkok and some of the other islands. I should add Songkhla and Hat Yai to this list although the type of foreigners who visit them is somewhat different. These are the places where all tourism is really concentrated, in many of them it is where girls from all over the country head to in order to make money and possibly try to find a foreign husband. It is where Thais set up to making money from foreigners. I suppose it is a bit like Kuta, Legian, Seminyak in Bali.

To see more of real Thailand one can go to cities like Phitsanulok which has a strong historical background and which are far less spoilt by tourism. I suppose I would compared Phitsanulok to Singaraja in Bali.

鈥淭o see more of real Thailand one can go to cities like Phitsanulok which has a strong historical background and which are far less spoilt by tourism. I suppose I would compared Phitsanulok to Singaraja in Bali.鈥�

The 鈥渟trong historical background鈥� in Singaraja is primarily from the Dutch colonial era, and not early Balinese culture.聽 Personally I would compare Phitsanulok to Ubud, and the many small villages which ring Ubud, and to Klungkung, all of which are living vestiges of the Majapahit Bali鈥�not Dutch colonial Bali.聽

From the point of view of the many expats I know in Thailand, their biggest worry at present is what happens when it鈥檚 time for the beloved King of Thailand to pass.聽 For certain, Indonesia has 鈥渁n edge鈥� on Thailand when it comes to political stability, be that either a perception, or a reality.

Ubudian wrote:

The 鈥渟trong historical background鈥� in Singaraja is primarily from the Dutch colonial era, and not early Balinese culture.聽 Personally I would compare Phitsanulok to Ubud, and the many small villages which ring Ubud, and to Klungkung, all of which are living vestiges of the Majapahit Bali鈥�not Dutch colonial Bali.

I'd go along with your comparison of Phitsanulok to Klungkung but less so with Ubud which I see as already spoiled by too many foreigners living there. I always feel that Ubud is becoming more like Kuta/Legian over time, something that I hope will slow down.

鈥淚'd go along with your comparison of Phitsanulok to Klungkung but less so with Ubud which I see as already spoiled by too many foreigners living there. I always feel that Ubud is becoming more like Kuta/Legian over time, something that I hope will slow down.鈥�

If one were to confine themselves to 鈥渄owntown鈥� Ubud, viz, Jalan Raya, Jalan Monkey Forest, etc. I would agree with you wholeheartedly.聽 The reality though is that Ubud is considered all of postal code 80571 which is Ubud central and about 15 smaller villages which surround Ubud.聽 It is there where one can find the same Bali that we all fell in love with decades or more ago.聽 For example, here are some photos of just one of these villages called Kiliki:



Obviously there is no comparison of these villages to Kuta/legian.聽 In fact, they couldn鈥檛 possibly be more disparate.聽 Nor are these villages heading towards the fate of Kuta/Legian.聽 In fact, it鈥檚 just the opposite, as many of these villages have already taken steps to prevent that from ever happening鈥�in short, it鈥檚 called 鈥渁dat law.鈥澛� 聽

Indeed, even the five star resorts in the Ubud area, and there are several including The Four Seasons, The Amandari, the Ritz鈥�just to name three, are totally incorporated and infused into our local environment and villages.

As for foreign expats living in the Ubud area, indeed there are many.聽 But unlike many expats down south who prefer to live in developments built specifically for foreigners, the typical Ubud area expat lives right amongst, and right with the local Balinese population.聽 There is far, far greater assimilation of the foreign expat community in the Ubud area than any area of Bali, 鈥渄own south.鈥澛�

The next time you鈥檙e in the Ubud area, I鈥檇 enjoying showing you the 鈥渞eal Ubud.鈥�

Cheers!

Indonesian ppl are friendly and great, nature is super beautiful, am a bit upset of:
Poor infrastructure
Streets are congested
General transpots are suck
Loads of motor cycle around.
street food canteens are spreading all the way around which makes the city more congested and dirty.
Goverment bureaucracy.
Last thing is the parking guys asking for money in each corner. Terus terus lol

I do regret to move here,
Regards,

That's a very honest opinion. I like it.

I think java is a tough place to to find what I regard as a good solution for living , the big cities ,no thanks , traffic etc .

the beaches and ocean -generally not inviting , parking mafia , noise pollution ie mosque density .

the weather , pretty grim in the rainy season .

I have found a small area , without noise pollution , little traffic and some good beaches , great snorkeling , weather like bali , in java after much research .

when the water runs out in south bali , which i fear it may do soon , iv got a bolthole

@ Salem_SBY

鈥淚 do regret to move here.鈥�

Are you stuck in Surabaya, or could you move elsewhere in Indonesia to avoid those things that upset you?

@ tel522

Yeah, one can鈥檛 underestimate the need to find one鈥檚 particular and best suited niche here, that鈥檚 for sure.聽 聽

tel522 wrote:

I think java is a tough place to to find what I regard as a good solution for living , the big cities ,no thanks , traffic etc .

the beaches and ocean -generally not inviting , parking mafia , noise pollution ie mosque density .

the weather , pretty grim in the rainy season .

I have found a small area , without noise pollution , little traffic and some good beaches , great snorkeling , weather like bali , in java after much research .

when the water runs out in south bali , which i fear it may do soon , iv got a bolthole

In my opinion Bali has too many foreigners, Jakarta is hectic, badly laid out and big traffic jams, Medan is unattractive, Yokyakarta is too quiet, Padang has risks of tsunami and earthquakes, Surabaya is uninteresting, Malang is in the middle of nowhere, BSD is a new town and very hot and dry. That's why I chose Bandung, the best compromise. A city which feels like a town, not too far from Jakarta, has a history and cooler climate, the friendliest people in Indonesia and is near to mountains. It just misses the beaches. So no regrets at all at moving here.

I agree with your thoughts , around 8 years ago malang was a nice place , quiet etc , but now its a mess ,traffic , and the people are more radical , definitely not foreigner friendly as it used to be .

for me the proximity to a couple of nice beaches and clean water, plus fresh fish , is higher up on the scale .

tel522 wrote:

I agree with your thoughts , around 8 years ago malang was a nice place , quiet etc , but now its a mess ,traffic , and the people are more radical , definitely not foreigner friendly as it used to be .

for me the proximity to a couple of nice beaches and clean water, plus fresh fish , is higher up on the scale .

Yup the beaches are the only thing I miss here, living near the sea counts for heck of a lot.

鈥淚n my opinion Bali has too many foreigners鈥︹��

As the main tourism center of Indonesia, it should have lots of foreigners, viz, tourists.聽 聽

However, if one gets out of the main tourist areas, the number of foreigners to be seen drops dramatically鈥�so dramatically in fact that 鈥渂ules鈥� are rarely seen.

But I would agree with your comment if it were expressed more accurately, such as,

鈥淚n my opinion, many parts of Bali have too many foreigners鈥︹�澛� 聽

The comment by Xavier ironically reminded me of one of the [b]nicest [/b]aspects of hunting for an address here: businesses very commonly have their entire street address written on their signs, so you can track down an unfamiliar place by referring to those. I've never seen that in any other country - is it an aspect of Dutch heritage?

I remember looking for a residence in Ikebukuro, Tokyo. Horrendous: no road signs, no idea of which way to go, little squiggly lanes and streets that often went nowhere, and the local people, while polite and helpful, often quite useless in steering you in the right direction.

I like sometimes to hang out in Denpasar on Jalan Teuku Umar for me it's the real Bali Downtown without all the products and services with the main purpose to serve tourists. When I go in Kuta, Legian I have good time but it's sooo touristy, it's far from the real Bali (at least the Asli Urban Bali not the villages ... hehe.

Furthermore in Denpasar downtown you can find the real deals, I mean the local price and good quality, where the Indo students go, I like it to see all these your Indonesian people, the next generation. For instance on Jalan Teuku Umar, they serve one of the best Serabi (Indonesian pancake) on the island of Bali and it's always full of students.

I'm actually not so keen on Jalan Teuku Umar but I do like to spend time around Jalan Sulawesi, the market and all the Chinese owned shop houses in that area.

"tel522 wrote:
I have found a small area , without noise pollution , little traffic and some good beaches , great snorkeling , weather like bali , in java after much research ."

Now, you've really got me going, I don't know how I'm gonna sleep at night (apologies to Ray Davies, The Kinks).

Where is it? Please tell me, you can whisper and no one else will hear.

Geoffwhere wrote:

Now, you've really got me going, I don't know how I'm gonna sleep at night (apologies to Ray Davies, The Kinks).

Where is it? Please tell me, you can whisper and no one else will hear.

Haha...you a fan of the Kinks too?聽

OK, you just go straight along Jalan Teuku Umar past the roundabout and round the corner and just before Matahari turn left onto Jalan Diponegoro. Go to the end of that street and turn left and almost immediately turn right and you're there. Lots of shops selling fabric and clothes and houseware etc. The market is near the end on the left.

ha ha geoff ,I bet you would , sorry my friend if I tell you everyone will head down and set up camp ha ha

to defray the costs of my extensive searchs , a bundle of the folding stuff to my nigerian bank account might twist my arm , ha ha

to tempt you even more , there was a dutch period house , quite beautiful, I reckon 80 years old , around 40 meters from the waters edge , paradise ! except now its owned by the聽 local government ,

they have good taste

Dear Ubudian, i was in Surabaya but i shifted to Bsd tangerang since 8 months, those problems i mentioned, its almost (more or less) in every city around Indonesia. Regards,

I actually don't mind the parking guys who ask for money at every corner. I believe they do a great service helping us to park and to reverse out in sometimes difficult conditions. It also gives them a job which is better than have them doing nothing, and I guess you also pay them just Rp2,000 each time same as I do? It's actually something that I admire in Indonesia in that people will find a way to make a living, and it really isn't much to pay.聽 Just my opinion...

tel522 wrote:

to tempt you even more , there was a dutch period house , quite beautiful, I reckon 80 years old , around 40 meters from the waters edge , paradise!

they have good taste

Everything which is Dutch聽 is beautiful but I'm prejudice聽

"Everything which is Dutch聽 is beautiful but I'm prejudice聽 "

As you probably know from your history, the Dutch were the colonial powers that controlled what is present day Indonesia for about 350 years鈥�from roughly 1600 to shortly after 1945.聽 聽

Their influence on Indonesian culture is still very much seen today throughout much of Indonesia.聽 It鈥檚 even reflected in the Indonesian language, as well as Indonesian law.

Considering what other major colonizing powers of those days that could have 鈥渂eaten鈥� the Dutch to colonize Indonesia, there is no doubt that The Netherlands, then at the height of its 鈥淕ilded Age鈥� was the best possible scenario.聽

If you haven鈥檛 already visited Indonesia, you should consider it.聽 In some areas you will feel 鈥渞ight at home.鈥澛�

Cheers!

Ubudian wrote:

Considering what other major colonizing powers of those days that could have 鈥渂eaten鈥� the Dutch to colonize Indonesia, there is no doubt that The Netherlands, then at the height of its 鈥淕ilded Age鈥� was the best possible scenario.

The British did, but we gave it back to the Dutch in the treaty of London.
Given the British abolished slavery and discovered Borobudur in the four years we were here, it seems a bit of a pity the Dutch returned. Indonesian history would have been very different.

We'll have to "talk" about British colonialism in Indonesia one day my friend.聽 聽

This Stamford Raffles character was not...how shall I say?...well, at the least he wasn't much of a man who cared much for the locals.聽 Just look what he did to Malaysia.聽 聽

Moreover, Great Britain was very, very late to this area...the Dutch beating them by more than two centuries.聽 聽

I'll grant you that Raffles re-discovered Borobudur...but what happened to all those heads of the Buddhas there?聽 Are they the "Elgin Marbles" equivalent...something like, the "Raffles Stones?"聽 聽

No matter what you think of the man, his sandwich shops are excellent.
I had one of their very nice beef sandwiches with fries the other day.

To the thread title and a transparent attempt to make an off topic post appear on topic, one of the nice things about Indonesia is there is a very nice variety of western food available; handy for those times fried rice isn't turning me on.

"No matter what you think of the man, his sandwich shops are excellent."



Well done!聽

Cheers!

another off topic point about raffles , he is the reason we drive on the left , the civilized side of the road ! ha ha