禁漫天堂

tel522 wrote:

another off topic point about raffles , he is the reason we drive on the left , the civilized side of the road ! ha ha

Given that the 鈥渙ld boy鈥� Sir Thomas Stamford Raffles died in 1826鈥�and well before the invention of cars, are you sure about that?聽

Seriously, the real reason that in Java, Sumatra, and Bali the English tradition of left hand driving came into play, is the result of the several English steam ship tourism companies that flourished here in the early 20th century.聽

Most notable of these was the Blue Bird company of the 1920鈥檚, (later adopted by the well known taxi company) which included motorcar tours of Java, Bali and Sumatra.聽

It is interesting to note that historically speaking, the Dutch did far less to promote tourism to the 鈥淒utch East Indies鈥� than the British tourism companies during the late 19th and early 20th century.聽

I鈥檝e often wondered鈥�why?聽 Could have it been that the Dutch were more aware of what that emphasis on tourism could lead to?聽 聽

Truth be told鈥�the historical record that is鈥�the English had precious little influence on the development of Indonesia, and this is especially true when compared to Dutch influence.聽 Yes, they (the English) were the ones who accepted the Japanese surrender in 1945, and yes, they supported Indonesian independence.聽 But, that was rather an easy position to take, since they in fact had very little at stake here.聽

It was immensely convenient for the British to take the side of Indonesia鈥�the first Asian or SE Asian country to declare independence after the end of WWII.聽 After all, what the British really wanted was to restore 鈥淏ritannia鈥� to Singapore, Hong Kong and other places throughout Asia and SE Asia.

Ubudian wrote:

Their influence on Indonesian culture is still very much seen today throughout much of Indonesia.聽 It鈥檚 even reflected in the Indonesian language, as well as Indonesian law.

If you haven鈥檛 already visited Indonesia, you should consider it.聽 In some areas you will feel 鈥渞ight at home.鈥澛�

Cheers!

And so in the Indonesian food integrated in our聽 culture although it is unfortunately adapted to the Dutch taste .
Even when I live at the other side of the world I managed to make some of my own by scratch.
Not the original stuff because the lack of some ingredients but one thing what I have always in stock is some spiced mix to make fried rice.
By writing this down an idea pops into my mind that its time to get in touch by Indonesian community here.


Never visit Indonesia but it's for sure on my bucket list.

That all sounds great to me!聽 聽

And yes, I encourage you to visit Indonesia one day.聽

You'll be proud, and you'll be very well taken in (embraced) by the locals who understand their history well, and who also appreciate it.聽 Here, history is inexorably tied into ancestor worship/appreciation.聽 It all goes hand in hand.聽

And, so nice of you to wander over here on this board from The Netherlands.聽

Please, don't be a stranger here!

Cheers, Roy

PS聽 You might enjoy reading this thread about a particular Dutchman...Arie Smit who we recently lost to time:

/forum/viewtopic.php?id=573231

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My Interview with 禁漫天堂:聽 /en/interview/292_roy-in-bali.html

Some of my Writings on Bali:聽

Never visit Indonesia but it's for sure on my bucket list

.

Indonesia is for tourists with a little adventure in their blood.
Bits of Bali are excellent for getting drunk and stupid, but that type of tourist never see Indonesia.

Once you get into the place, you'll love it.

Thanks Roy, very sweet of you, I will.

As I don't live in the Netherlands anymore for ten years but in Jordan, I miss some of it.
Normally I don't interfere quickly聽 on boards where we have good experts who doing their job very well, and I consider you as one of them, but its very heart warming to know I'm welcome.

I'm also sweet.
I'm sure you'll love the place if you pop over.

Don't need to go far to get drunk and stupid but it's nice to do it in a different environment聽
Besides that, its not my way to feel a new country.

@ ubudian
Given that the 鈥渙ld boy鈥� Sir Thomas Stamford Raffles died in 1826鈥�and well before the invention of cars, are you sure about that?

I did some reading online sometime ago, re raffles in indonesia , as you will be aware the brits were pretty busy "plonking" flags everywhere , they had a spat with the dutch about the french as I remember , so they took java for a few years only and sent raffles in , he was not impressed with batavia ( jakarta ) horses and carts everywhere , a right mess , so as I read he established driving on the left to bring some order to the place
check this out !
Raffles Part I: The Governor of Java - History - 103 Meridia
he was a busy guy , exploring ,setting up colonies , tough guys those days

Never trust history when it鈥檚 written by the conqueror himself.聽 The History of Java by Sir Thomas Stamford Raffles.聽 What鈥�come on鈥�the guy was only there for little over two years or so, and he had very little if any impact on anything outside of Batavia, (now Jakarta).聽 In fact, he was removed from his post there for 鈥渇inancial improprieties.鈥澛�

But sure, fairy tales and urban legends are fun to believe in!聽 聽

Cheers!

there are pages and pages on the life of raffles by many authors, java was only a small footnote.

True enough, Java is only a small footnote in the life of Raffles.聽 But what he did, or didn鈥檛 do here in Indonesia is wrought with myths鈥�such as another one already mentioned here, that being that he ended slavery on Java.聽 That simply isn鈥檛 true aside from making it illegal for any competitors to own slaves while he temporarily sat in charge of Batavia.聽 The fact is, Raffles even had a number of his own domestic slaves working at his residence in Batavia.

It was the Dutch who officially abolished slavery throughout all of present day Indonesia in July of 1863.聽 In some areas, for example Sumbawa, slavery carried on into the 20th century.

ok mr ubudian , the many authors are incorrect , I bow to your greater knowledge , anyway we are way off topic here

No worries.聽 It's just that when it comes to reading about Raffles in Indonesia, try to read other than what British historians have to say.聽 聽

Cheers!

As a non-Asian, Non- White expat, I should have done a little more research on how I would be received here.

Sydney

Sydneymuganzi wrote:

As a non-Asian, Non- White expat, I should have done a little more research on how I would be received here.

Sydney

Are you having problems with racism?

Yes, it is one of those things that have tainted a rather pleasant stay here.

I have yet to manage to work out how skin colour changes how nice a person is.
However, some people believe it does.

Sydney, are you in Indonesia, or Vietnam?

That's unfortunate. I know some Nigerians who were having a great time in Jakarta, they had local girlfriends which they eventually married and seemed to have a pretty good lifestyle. About two years ago they moved to Kuala Lumpur and are importing clothes from Mangga Dua in Jakarta and selling them in a boutique in KL as well as running a barber shop. I think there are a lot more Africans in Malaysia.

I think we need some clarification from Sydney as to exactly where he鈥檚 experienced racism before we assume he鈥檚 talking about Jakarta, or anywhere else in Indonesia.聽

His profile indicates Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam.聽 聽

I dont think Indonesian Ppl Are racist, they are the most behaved, down to earth, respected, kind, welcoming and well mannered ppl in the planet.
I really love Indonesian ppl. i never face any racism or unproper act from any Indonesian.聽
Thats the most Important reason which keep me attached to this country.

God Bless Indonesia !!

Salem_SBY wrote:

I dont think Indonesian Ppl Are racist, they are the most behaved, down to earth, respected, kind, welcoming and well mannered ppl in the planet.
I really love Indonesian ppl. i never face any racism or unproper act from any Indonesian.聽
Thats the most Important reason which keep me attached to this country.

God Bless Indonesia !!

I think you have a good understanding of Indonesia and it's people. And I appreciate reading your honest and good analysis of Indonesia.

I think the good things in Indonesia far outweigh the bad things, and that is what's important.

Too bad that Sydney hasn't been back to clarify if he's speaking about Indonesia or Vietnam.

Indoenisia is only for indenisians. They understand each other. They know how to deal with each other. People look to foreigners as walking ATM machine . They try to get advantage ( 10% commission) of him from the moment he lands the airport ...to finding hotel or apartments...to doing business. You name it. The government nt opening the door for foreigners to invest truely. The corruption is everywhere. Many foreigners asked me to leave Asap before I get hooked to the system more and can not leave. Do you think all the above encourge me to go back Indenisia. Why? There are 195 other countries out there worth visiting .

That's an interesting viewpoint from a "Canadian expat in Indonesia."聽 聽

Indonesia is a mystery... Its the best place for those who know its mysterious and magical nature... Hundreds of thousands of smiling human beings... a surrounding filled up with colors... no freezing winter and no burning summer.... its raining every day.... smell of sate, ikan bakar, masakan padang and delicious foods of Indies... THERE IS NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WHERE PEOPLE BOTHER TO ASK YOU... YOUR NAME? MARITAL STATUS? NO OF FAMILY MEMBERS? YOUR JOB? YOUR RELIGION?...... IT IS THE REAL GIFT OF INDONESIA THAT INDONESIAN PEOPLE SPEND THEIR TIME TO KNOW ABOUT YOU... by the way juts think do we deserve so much importance? no not at all... its just because of their beautiful and amazing culture... otherwise in many other parts of Asia and Western world no one is interested who you are and where you comes from.....

aly123 wrote:

Indonesia is a mystery... Its the best place for those who know its mysterious and magical nature... Hundreds of thousands of smiling human beings... a surrounding filled up with colors... no freezing winter and no burning summer.... its raining every day.... smell of sate, ikan bakar, masakan padang and delicious foods of Indies... THERE IS NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WHERE PEOPLE BOTHER TO ASK YOU... YOUR NAME? MARITAL STATUS? NO OF FAMILY MEMBERS? YOUR JOB? YOUR RELIGION?...... IT IS THE REAL GIFT OF INDONESIA THAT INDONESIAN PEOPLE SPEND THEIR TIME TO KNOW ABOUT YOU... by the way juts think do we deserve so much importance? no not at all... its just because of their beautiful and amazing culture... otherwise in many other parts of Asia and Western world no one is interested who you are and where you comes from.....

be very careful to聽 trust everyone here , that smile can turn into a scowl , and they will fleece you given half a chance ,, yes there are good and bad people here , as everywhere , but never forget you are a foreigner here , with almost no legal rights.

yes you are right as well... its a huge country so there are offcourse such harmful people too... particularly when it comes to matters of money...

In the words of Victor Mason, unquestionably the most famous expat on Bali if not all of Indonesia:聽 鈥淚t鈥檚 not the Balinese I worry about fleecing me鈥�rather, it鈥檚 the other expats.鈥澛� 聽

hany1111 wrote:

People look to foreigners as walking ATM machine .

When you go to the tourist areas, many traders will try to rip you off, mostly because they know you earn in a day whet they earn in a month (In general).
I allow small rip off, but not big ones (I'm a philanthropist - live with it).

The worst offenders as far as treating white dudes as ATMs are the girls who hang around Jakarta's tourist/westerners' bars looking for the idiot end of tourists and expats with a load of cash, their brain (such as it is) in their underwear, but no common sense at all.
There are some nice girls around there, but there are also a lot of gold diggers and prostitutes - take your pick where you spend your cash to get sex, but AIDS is a pretty serious problem within those groups.
The same goes for the bars and restaurants aimed at foolish tourists/expats, they rip you off, but only if you're daft enough to go there.

I have to be as honest as I am undiplomatic - If you hang around with such 'ladies' or in such places,聽 expect to get ripped off.

As for crime, this UK government site pretty much says it all.



Mostly petty crime with a very limited number of more serious problems.
Taking the above mentioned dodgy 'ladies' back to your room, getting drugged and ripped off being amongst the worst crimes the more foolish are prone to.
In the UK, drugs are a major cause of almost every type of crime but the lack of drug stupidity in Indonesia is reflected in Indonesia's low crime figures (Compared to the UK).
That isn't to claim Indonesia isn't totally free of drug dealers, but the infestation is under control and the cops tend to take a very dim view of dealers.

Fred wrote:

When you go to the tourist areas, many traders will try to rip you off, mostly because they know you earn in a day whet they earn in a month (In general).
I allow small rip off, but not big ones (I'm a philanthropist - live with it).

The worst offenders as far as treating white dudes as ATMs are the girls who hang around Jakarta's tourist/westerners' bars looking for the idiot end of tourists and expats with a load of cash, their brain (such as it is) in their underwear, but no common sense at all.
There are some nice girls around there, but there are also a lot of gold diggers and prostitutes - take your pick where you spend your cash to get sex, but AIDS is a pretty serious problem within those groups.
The same goes for the bars and restaurants aimed at foolish tourists/expats, they rip you off, but only if you're daft enough to go there.

I have to be as honest as I am undiplomatic - If you hang around with such 'ladies' or in such places,聽 expect to get ripped off.

Luckily we don't really get that kind of problem in Bandung and we don't have those kind of bars, as far as I know. The only people who might rip off foreigners here are probably聽 the occasional lawyer or notary public which is why I let my wife deal with them. And even then, that problem is pretty universal the world over.

I cant speak for other countries , but in uk the legal profession is pretty honest , kept so by the law , which is pretty strict and they go quick to prison if found to corrupt .
On the other hand here , I have witnessed a "so called" lawyer here asking for 1 billion to process a hotel sale , besides his fee , of course the deal foundered , what a joke !.

I know 2 indonesians of moderate wealth who lost 2 and 6 billion respectively ,they had a contract with a company in jakarta which was not honored, being a wealthy organization , they got no satisfaction in court , suprise suprise !

As I have said before on this topic ,you have got to be so careful here where money and the so called legal community are concerned .

Yup, you gotta be careful and have your wits about you at all times and use a lot of common sense, and that's not just with the locals.

Regarding Local ppl looking to Expats as Atm machine, it happens in most poor countries all over the world. But from my personal expiernce, as soon as i started to learn bahasa and talk with locals in their language. It makes a really big differnce, they treat me almost like a local indo. With no gaps,,,or trying to rip or fooling u....learn some bahasa basic words, its very beneficial.

aly123 wrote:

. THERE IS NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WHERE PEOPLE BOTHER TO ASK YOU... YOUR NAME? MARITAL STATUS? NO OF FAMILY MEMBERS? YOUR JOB? YOUR RELIGION?...... IT IS THE REAL GIFT OF INDONESIA THAT INDONESIAN PEOPLE SPEND THEIR TIME TO KNOW ABOUT YOU....

Hehehehe very true !!! At the begining i got annoyed of their curosity and lots of questions, but then i get used to it and find it intresting.

And one of the questions that younger local wives always get asked is "how old is your bule husband?"聽

Hansson wrote:

And one of the questions that younger local wives always get asked is "how old is your bule husband?"聽

And, in Muslim areas, has he had 'the chop'?

I have lived in several European countries聽 and North Africa as well as my native Australia. Prior to moving to Bali four years ago I did volunteer work in Thailand聽 for a number聽 of years and visited Bali a few times. Finally I had the opportunity to live here and it has been an amazing experience.聽 I live in a two bedroom , two bathroom furnished house in a Nusa Dua with access to a pool and a restaurant less than five minutes walk from the house, travel around by Grab or GoCar with zero problems and enjoy a great life. I have found the majority of the people to be friendly, helpful and honest.聽 My only regret is that I did not make the move years ago.

Yes, four years聽 and still loving it.