禁漫天堂

Immigration to make sure they'll allow you to do it.
Much as that trade is vile, people make cash and cash is commonly power.

Remember.
You're moving to a land America illegally carpet bombed for a long time, and that's likely to mean any attempt in messing around in whatever they consider their business is likely to get a reaction you won't like.
Whatever your opinion of those terrorist attacks, operation menu is history that will probably be remembered if you upset the wrong people.

Hm. Interesting response. But remember, I did say "to do ANYTHING I can". That could mean perhaps teaching English to children who have been rescued and are living in a mission home. Or helping to create alternative incomes for these folks. I DO understand that these people are in a situation that forces them to take drastic measures. I am not naive to their plight, so I don't exactly plan to go in guns a'blazing. All of that being said, I am aware of the risks that I may have to take. Bottom line, I am willing to take them. Fred, may I ask, where you are from? What is your profession? Have you been in PP long? I appreciate the heads up. Not really what I was expecting, but I welcome ANY kind of advice or info, so thanks
Ant

Would you advise ALL sex trade NGO operatives to end their efforts to help these children, or just me?

The real ones with the correct information, background and permissions are a great help.
An amateur without any backing and with dodgy immigration staus would probably be dangerous to themselves and do more harm than good, possibly ending up in serious trouble with the authorities or a gang.

Agreed. Which brings us back to my reasons for seeking contacts who are involved with "real" NGO's in the first place. So, I am really not sure what it is that you are assuming that I am trying to do that is so different from what others have already done and are all ready doing. Its not like I have a deathwish or anything. I very much want to find out what is already being done to help and how it is being done. Then, THAT is what I will do. Now do you understand where I am coming from?

If you want to try something positive but less dangerous, find out about the US, Brit and other western sex tourists who go to Cambodia for child sex, and speak out against them.
The people in those countries won't believe you because 'their people' could never do such things, so you'll be quietly ignored as an anti American/British/Australian/whoever nutter, but probably a safe one as no one in Cambodia will feel threatened by you.

There ya go! Now we're on the same page. I mean why WOULDN'T I go after the mostly English tourists who are creating the demand? Perhaps you had previously been operating under the assumption that I intended to come rappeling out of a helicopter like Rambo, shooting up gang compounds with an m4! Lol! But yes, I definitely recognize the consumers as a key component of the bigger problem. If there were no demand, there would be no trade. Have you considered the possibility that perhaps I have given this thing a lot more thought than you had originally thought? This isn't something that just popped in to my head yesterday. Now, judging by the fact that you have yet to offer up any leads on people or organizations for me to contact,聽 聽should I assume you know of none? Remember, that was ultimately the motive of my inquiry. So once again, any info of that nature would be greatly appreciated.

If you want to help, the most important thing to do is get to know the problem, the system, the society. Find out that most sex predators are Khmer men, followed by other Asian men. Find out that politicians, military, police, officials are the main culprits and you won't stop them. Find out that most ngo's go after westerners, to score points and get their supporters send more money, to buy a new Toyota Landcruiser, or rent an even more expensive villa. Find out that it's a mess that you and I cannot change.
Find out that some parents offer their daughters to you for money.

Be a good, reliable and supporting teacher, show your kids that they can trust you.

Those are two things that will keep you busy, try not to get frustrated, try to give little help, personal help, feel good at the end of the day, but don't think you can change the horrible situation. Education can change it, as kids can learn skills and get a job later, so their kids don't have to beg in the street. So teach them, show them the way.

Good luck!

Two reliable NGOs that I know who work with child protection would be Friends International and APLE.聽 APLE especially works to catch the pedophiles.聽 Anyway, maybe contact them and see if they might have something for you to get involved in.

Ok! APLE. Great! Sounds like just what I may be looking for. Thanks Marika.

Marika, you should have mentioned that NGO's are only interested to catch foreign white pedos. Although that is a good thing to do, the great majority of offenders are Khmer, followed by other Asians, like Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans.

They (NGO's) do nothing about that so child abuse will never be better, it will always be there.

Joe, you've got a point there.聽 I spoke to an NGO guy the other day at a coffee shop and he told me the same thing that the majority of the offenders are actually Asian.聽 The expat cases just get more time in the spotlight.

Yes Marika.
Fact is that those NGO's live from donor money sent by Western supporters. So each time they catch a Western pedo they send a sponsor letter, asking for more money and bragging that they caught another pedo.

The NGO's live a luxurious life of that sponsor money, all NGO's (as far as I know) have office in an expensive villa, they drive around in Toyota Landcruiser or a Lexus, and they concentrate on westerners, the 90% child abuse by Asians is financially not interesting to them.

In my town there are dozens of glue-sniffing street kids, nobody takes care of them, They all seem to think the kids will not get old as the glue solvents destroy their brains. I have been talking to NGO's and asked them why they neglect those kids. It is too complicated is the answer. So thank you, for me no NGO's. Last week I saw a mother with two young daughters, maybe 7 and 9. While mother was carrying shopping, the daughters were sniffing glue!!! My heart was torn apart but I cannot do anything.

If Joe wasn't here saying the truth,聽 聽ignorance would prevail ,聽 thanks Joe

JoeKhmer wrote:

Fact is that those NGO's live from donor money sent by Western supporters. So each time they catch a Western pedo they send a sponsor letter, asking for more money and bragging that they caught another pedo.

I was going to send you a PM thanking you for your excellent posts in this thread, but I'll have to do it here as your PM system is turned off.

There are thousands of westerners in Asian for sex with kids, a few very high profile ones like Gary Glitter, but loads of others no one ever hears about because very few people care about the victims and no bugger wants to know it's 'their' people who go to Asia to commit such crimes.
The NGOs catch some, and do seem to live pretty well whilst they're doing so, but miss the vast majority and do sod all about the poverty that puts so many kids in danger of exploitation.

I'm guessing here, so open to correction by those in a better position to post accurate information, but I'll bet a lot of this could be stopped if money was spent on educating poor kids in the hope of getting them out of the poverty trap.

Is my guess close?

Could be closer if you'd actually read his posts,
' Find out that most sex predators are Khmer men, followed by other Asian men. Find out that politicians, military, police, officials are the main culprits and you won't stop them. Find out that most ngo's go after westerners, to score points and get their supporters send more money, to buy a new Toyota Landcruiser, or rent an even more expensive villa. '

Hi Fred and Joe,

This has turned into quite the conversation haha.

First, I would like to comment on the current financial situation of NGOs, both local and international 鈥� this directly impacts both the local and international NGOs focusing on child protection.聽 I don鈥檛 know if you guys have heard that a lot of NGOs are suffering currently due to funds being withdrawn from Cam?聽 Recently, due to a personal project of mine, I visited a few NGOs and was surprised by the NOT fancy and expensive villas they were in.聽 Now, sure, some of them probably are located in awesome places, lucky people, but one director I spoke to said that due to a lack of funds they had to move out of there nice place and move to Toul Kork which is, apparently, cheaper.聽 Anyway, that鈥檚 just a comment on funds, villas, and so on.

The lack of funding also impacts the amount of projects these guys can do.聽 (Disclaimer:聽 I am not employed by an NGO and I am by no means defending all of the NGOS because just as there are good guys there are bad guys everywhere 鈥� or dodgy guys, maybe corrupt, you get my drift, whatever.)聽 Well, obviously showing the donors that they caught a guy will help them get funding.聽 Good for them.聽 What I do agree with you guys though is that the focus should be spread to cover the Asian pedos as well.聽 I do think some of the NGOs might do that, I don鈥檛 know 鈥� if they鈥檙e worth their salt and truly in it for the good of the kids I would hope so.聽 Who knows?聽 I don鈥檛 have stats or anything on that.

Now, to get this situation sorted out.聽 I totally agree with you, Fred, that it starts with education.聽 Not just the ABC鈥檚, but general social education about child safety, etc.聽 Much is being done with regards to this, but again we run into our old friend: Funding Issues.聽 It鈥檚 hard enough to get a pilot project going 鈥� what to say about sustaining one?

When it comes to education I think it鈥檚 not just the children who should be educated, but their families as well.聽 There are NGOs working with a holistic approach who does this.聽 And鈥� yes, poverty is probably the main cause of most kids and adults being marginalized and excluded from things such as education, a healthy living environment (and healthcare!), and things we take for granted (I really do love my shower even if the water pressure sucks, and I do love my bed even if it鈥檚 a bit hard鈥� I would sooo not be happy to sleep on the ground and not be able to wash myself, ya know?).聽 I鈥檝e read that Cambodia鈥檚 one of the countries who has been performing really well with cutting down their poverty numbers, but most people (especially the guys living in rural areas) are still in danger of falling back under the bread line.聽 (聽 ---- something I read).聽 Apparently agriculture has helped boost incomes, but it鈥檚 a touch and go situation still.聽 Poor kids come to the city to beg and well, on the streets stuff happens...

I do not know about NGOs doing stuff for fancy cars and so on, there are probably people getting some good stuff out of this deal, but I don鈥檛 think we should shoot down the people who can actually change things for these kids.聽 聽

Sheesh, this has turned into a bit of an essay.聽 I think I鈥檒l stop now.

P.S.聽 Money is being spent on education, but there isn't enough funding going around to educate EVERYONE.聽 I think it's hard finding ways to reach large crowds in a cheap way.

Fred wrote:

JoeKhmer wrote:

Fact is that those NGO's live from donor money sent by Western supporters. So each time they catch a Western pedo they send a sponsor letter, asking for more money and bragging that they caught another pedo.

I was going to send you a PM thanking you for your excellent posts in this thread, but I'll have to do it here as your PM system is turned off. I'm very surprised, will try to repair that.

There are thousands of westerners in Asian for sex with kids,
Although correct in general, this is Cambodia and it's not that bad overhere with western pedophiles. Thailand, Philippines are worse, Vietnam has it's share too.

The NGOs catch some, and do seem to live pretty well whilst they're doing so, but miss the vast majority and do sod all about the poverty that puts so many kids in danger of exploitation.
They indeed miss the majority, which is Asian men. Khmer men are the gross majority of child sexual abuse but nobody cares, probably because those that should care are also involved in it.

I'm guessing here, so open to correction by those in a better position to post accurate information, but I'll bet a lot of this could be stopped if money was spent on educating poor kids in the hope of getting them out of the poverty trap.

Is my guess close?

Your guess is partly correct. There are two ways to stop child sex abuse:
1. Get the perpetrators off the street. Among them also those that force kids to sell flowers, beg at night, they are creating the danger for kids to be abused.
2. Get all kids education, so that they can learn, later get a job, so their kids don't need to beg in the street. This is for the future.

Marika, I fully understand your position and opinion, nothing wrong with it.
I also did not say all NGO's are living well off the money of sponsors. But the largest ones do, those that brag about catching a western pedo have more money sent to them than those that work locally and concentrate on education for kids. Fact is that if you start a NGO with the aim to prevent kids from sexual abuse you should concentrate on the largest group of perpetrators, and that is not done. By far the largest group of perpetrators is Asian men, with Khmer men in front.
The relatively small group of western pedos is not the most important, but for raising money NGO's and their sponsors like to see another western pedo being convicted.
Every single pedo being caught is a good thing, don't get me wrong, but when you leave 90% doing their dirty deed and you concentrate on only 10% you do something wrong.

There are nearly 600! NGO's in Cambodia, registered ones. I know some NGO's that are not even registered! But still sending sponsor letters to get more money sent.

I hope the government will put emphasis on education, only education can make kids learn a skill, get a job and prevent their children to be forced to beg in the street!

Hi Joe,

I know you didn't mean that ALL NGOs are in it for the villas etc. :-)

I agree with you that more should be done to address the issue of the Asian pedos.聽 I totally understand why bragging about the expat pedo is good for funding, but that funding should be used to address the entire issue - not just the issue of the expat pedos.

Man, I totally agree with the education thing.聽 The other day I was in a meeting and the one speaker spoke about how we're preparing kids for jobs that don't even exist yet (as in occupations that haven't even been invented yet - we can see how fast the world's developing -- sheesh, it feels like only yesterday I used a Nokia haha).聽 Educating the marginalized kids would create a work force - a work force that Cam needs if it wants to keep up with its development.聽

I read that many kids do go to school, but very few actually even finish primary school.

You're right on education. It's even worse.

Teachers at general schools earn very little. That brings them to ask contributions from the students, which is 500 riel per halfday for the first 3 years of primary school, and 1000 riel per halfday for older students. If a family has 3 kids in school they are obliged to pay between $22 and $44 per month for a "free" school, something that a lot of families cannot afford and they take their kids from school.

It starts at the bottom: get the teacher a normal salary so they don't need money from the kids. That way it is real "free" education.
Second the level of education is so bad that most kids get extra tuition for which parents have to pay.
That should not be necessary. If a school educates Khmer and English language and the kids go for extra tuition of Khmer and English language in the afternoon there is substantially something wrong.

Wow! Now THIS has been a great thread! For some reason, I was blocked and haven't been able to see or respond in a thread that I created! Go figure. Anyway, yes I am thoroughly and painfully aware of the problems within the NGO community. Nothing is perfect, but that is all the more reason for me to do my part to bring about change. Not just change, IMPROVEMENTS. I agree that education is key, which is why I intend to teach...English primarily. Oh Marika, I checked in to that NGO called APLE. Hmmmm...I read some truly horrible, downright terrifying and disturbing聽 things! Particularly about their founder, Thierry...something. A VERY BAD MAN! I was appalled at what I discovered. Things like this only serve to exacerbate the main issue of abuse. Now we wind up having to protect the children from the NGO'S. Perhaps I will never win any popularity contests, but I WILL DO SOMETHING. Whatever that "something" turns out to be and whatever impact that it turns out to make, is completely in God's hands, as I myself am completely in His hands. My personal belief is that I am poised to be a part of something big. Bigger than ME at least.

Hi guys,

Yup, the salaries of the teachers are ridiculously low and I鈥檝e also heard about the kids having to contribute.聽 That鈥檚 just WOW.聽 Even at paying schools I鈥檝e heard they do that.聽 (Correct me if I鈥檓 wrong).聽 I don鈥檛 know much about the training the teachers go through, but I suppose when you鈥檙e only earning something over $100 your motivation won鈥檛 be too high鈥β� 聽I鈥檝e had kids at schools I鈥檝e taught before complain about their teachers saying they鈥檙e boring, or they just chat or don't know how to teach whatever.聽 Now鈥� the kids I spoke to come from better off families than the ones we鈥檙e discussing.聽 (The Khmer/Asian method of teaching also differs from the Western style - I saw it in China and Hong Kong as well as here.聽 I must say -- I've see children respond better to my teaching, which is somewhat whacky (I've been called weird countless of times, but dude, my kids' marks show that weird does the trick) than what they do to drilling techniques, whacks over the head, etc.).

We can go on about education, but as always funding is an issue 鈥� if you can鈥檛 pay the teachers鈥� how are you going to get properly qualified people teaching the kids?聽 Also鈥� most teachers want to go work at 鈥済ood鈥� schools where they get paid a touch more.聽 I think there is a lack of teachers willing to really make a difference in the lives of the kids they teach 鈥� and that鈥檚 what makes teaching such a great (and really hard) profession: you鈥檙e not only teaching a subject, but you鈥檙e influencing these kids in many ways.聽 If I got whacked over the head for getting an answer wrong鈥� you know鈥� my motivation to study and my self-esteem would be very low too.聽 But you can鈥檛 just rely on the occasional volunteer to show up and work for free 鈥� unless that volunteer鈥檚 financial situation is good enough (and he/she is actually qualified for the job) to stay on for more than two months鈥β� There are NGO schools around (good ones) where they open up schools in marginalized areas.聽 A friend of mine works at one of those schools and they follow quite a holistic approach where they involve the families of the kids as well (and where the Khmer teachers get some of the highest salaries I've heard of so far).聽

Kabe, I鈥檓 going to google what you told me about APLE!聽 I need to know more! As everywhere in the world the people in powerful positions sometimes abuse their power and also manage to get away with things.聽 That is just freaken disgusting.聽 Oh, check out this place if you want to freak out a bit: 鈥淧rey Speu.鈥澛� I recently read about it on Facebook and started keeping track of articles about it.聽 It鈥檚 supposed to be a vocational training center for people the police grab off the streets.聽 There鈥檚 zero training going on and there are kids living there too 鈥� in disgusting circumstances with the government not responding to NGOs鈥� calls to either change it or close it.聽 It鈥檚 like a 鈥渄umping ground鈥� for the poor, the prostitutes, street kids, the mentally ill, etc.聽 Ugh, just horrible.

Another thing you could look into would be the situation around orphanages and 鈥渞esidential care.鈥澛� Many orphanages aren鈥檛 legit and people keep funding them and visiting them not realizing that it鈥檚 a money making scheme where the kids are neglected, abused, etc.聽 There's a big issue around Australian volunteers being duped into giving money, etc.

Oh, here are some stats from a document I鈥檓 reading for research at the moment (I do not read these things for fun - I'm more of a fantasy book kind of girl so this is for work haha).聽 It鈥檚 from UNICEF鈥檚 2016-2018 Programme plan for Cambodia.

鈥淏etween school-years 2004/5 and 2014/15, the pre-school enrollment rate increased from 24.5 per cent to 61.4 per cent for children aged 5 years; and from 10.8 per cent to 35.3 per cent for children aged 3-5 years. Gender disparities in primary and secondary school enrollment have been largely eliminated.

Despite great strides in achieving development goals, huge disparities in access to state social services remain an ongoing challenge. Around 40 per cent of Cambodia鈥檚 14.7 million people live just above the poverty line, with the majority from marginalized groups in rural areas.鈥�

And only about 88.9% of kids complete PRIMARY school.聽 Well, all the numbers have shown positive changes from when the NGOs first started in Cambodia.聽 But... stats about poverty etc. are still scary.聽 Certain thing are improving, but others...

And child trafficking and prostitution is a big freaken issue.聽 Thing is: you, as expat, can't just walk into the areas and start "changing" things.聽 It's dangerous.聽 You need a network of people helping you out and backing you. This is a big financial thing and if you just come screw with their money... oh damnnnnn...

Alright, that鈥檚 my two cents for the morning.聽 Kabe, come, find your feet and then start contacting NGOs once you are here to see if you could work with them.

In Victoria Australia,聽 teachers with 6 years exp get 100 G / year,聽 聽even the ones who can't read and write, and send every student away worse off, after wasting a year of their life.

like my young friend who couldn't read at the age of 10,聽 聽some people should have gone to jail for that,聽 or refunded a big part of their salary.

It can't just be education,聽 but I would think it would be an easy thing,聽 to top up a good teachers salary.

...and in reality, if Westerners and Europeans were the only ones that we went after, we would be ignoring the VAST majority of predators, as around 90% of them are local Asians. Hmmm.

As mentioned earlier it's usually the expats who fall in the spotlight because "Ooooh, international scandal!"聽 Nobody wants to bring the local bad guys into the spot light because bribery, someone knows someone who knows someone who can get the guy out of the situation, etc.聽
Well, if we can't get rid of the baddies then we can at least try to get the kids out of there.聽 Problem is:聽 they do make money and many return to that life due to that fact.聽 Damn, it's a sucky situation.

Marika, glad you are opening so many aspects, I would like to react on a few of them.

1. They (kids) earn money. Correct. I can tell you from inside poor families, that begging street kids bring home about $10 a day, that is $300 a month, more than a teacher or policeman earns!!!
Even if they would like to go to school, their family will tell them not and to continue begging.

2. Prey Speu is a prison, where they put all "difficult" cases, homeless, prostitutes, kids, criminals that they cannot prosecute. It's is the worst prison of Cambodia, an outright breach of human rights.

3. Education or day-care is the way to go. A child that is in a school or day-care center is not exposed to the dangers of being trafficked or lured into sex. So that would make up for the numerous orphanages that keep kids inside their walls. But it's not that nice, see next point.

4. Orphanages are in many cases a scam. They put kids in it that are no orphans, attract tour groups (silly tourists that think a cute Khmer child is a tourist attraction) and of course get the people to donate money. After the day is over the non-orphan kids go back to their families.....

5. Poorly paid teachers are not motivated. Of course not. Still, with their illegal donations from the kids they should be motivated, but they aren't. The money-seeking teachers do not exist in private schools. I have just enrolled the daughter of my friend into a private school, and I will do so with her son and her niece. The school costs $300 a year, plus $30 for 2 uniforms. If every expat living here would just sponsor one or two kids into private school we would have a much better situation, and the costs are not really life-threatening. I do more things for kids, but on my own, I do not support any NGO. But I keep a few kids from prostitution, and that makes me feel good. Only e few, but at least those are safe.

6. I've said it before and you Marika has said it too, don't jump into this country with the attitude I will change a lot. Arrive and live for a while. If you want to teach, do it for a longer term, not like some backpackers, teach for 3 months, that is rubbish. Teaching is, as has been said, not only about education, it's also preparing kids for adult life, a job that their parents should do but realize that those parents never had a guide to adult life themselves. So a teacher is also a guide.

Well said, Joe!

Weeeeeew, I read up about the APLE thing you mentioned, Kabe.聽 Holy freaken cow.聽 Scandal galore.

There are strong rumours that APLE "creates" victim confessions in a pedo case, if more evidence is needed. They talk to parents of girls near the suspect, promise them to get compensation of between $500 and $1000 and as the people are poor the girls have to "confirm" sexual abuse.

I don't say it's true, but it could be, and I don't trust APLE at all. So far for one of the most well-known NGO's.

Oh indeed! That Thierry character? My, my, my... The pure Devil in my eyes! He is worse than ANY of the folks that his organization has gone after. And that's not counting the ones who may have been falsely accused and imprisoned. I can see right now that, unless I find an affective way to center myself, perhaps utilizing some sort of Asian mind/body manipulation techniques, I'm going to be a very frustrated individual for much of the time! Ha! Half joking, half serious. I will surely continue to rely heavily upon my relationship with my Heavenly Father, however a little yoga couldn't hurt!

Yeah, my plan has ALWAYS been to go and become slowly, genuinely acclimated to the culture and climate, political and otherwise. I had never planned on diving in head first, thinking I'm going to be the grand saviour of them all. Like I said to someone the other day. "I'm not going to try and 'Rambo the damn thing'!" So yeah, I'm not going to smear mud on my face, roll out of a helicopter in to a rice paddy and belly crawl through the jungle, slitting throats as I go! But I swear, going by some of the responses that I have received, (not yours), just upon the mere mentioning of helping, you would think that that was exactly what I was saying that I intended to do. There is a general resentment toward foreigners who do want to come and Rambo the damn thing and believe me, that reasoning is not lost on me. I guess I'm just a little anxious to get a little credibility under my belt. The way that credible people are treated, lends itself well to the building and sustainance of self confidence. I certainly can use all of that that I can get. Not saying that I am particularly lacking in confidence per se...聽 聽Speaking of which, you yourself have been a confidence builder for me. So thanks...and KEEP IT UP! Haha!! Seriously though, I am truly grateful for your correspondence. Chat later!

Kabe Adrift wrote:

I'm not going to try and 'Rambo the damn thing'!" So yeah, I'm not going to smear mud on my face, roll out of a helicopter in to a rice paddy and belly crawl through the jungle, slitting throats as I go!

Hahahahhahahahaha, it's such a lovely image.聽 We should start our own NGO called Rambos for Child Justice.聽 Yeah! ;-)

R.A.G.E.聽 ...Rambo Against Gross Enslavement. Whatever...just the first thing that popped in to my head. I'm a dork! Bwaahahaha!

Marika, you are a pleasure to talk to, serious when needed, fun when possible. Love that!

Kabe, you got the right spirit now and I see that as an improvement, remembering your first attempt to as you say Rambo the whole thing.

You know now, by just googling, that the famous APLE (they are always mentioned in pedo cases) is a bunch of wrong people, too much connected to police and justice. Money rules and they make it rule the way they want it, as their sponsors pays by the conviction.

It's good to know that. It gives you a better view on NGO's in general. So add to that your first experiences when you arrive, you will be well prepared to do good things, after good and thorough evaluation what and where you want to help.

Good luck, you're on the right track!

"Improvem..." Ok Joe. Close enough. I'll take it, thanks! Yeah, isn't she a breath of fresh air? You as well. A really genuine guy.

I think you blush for a reason