禁漫天堂

In 2022 I stayed over 180 days in Thailand. I did not work in Thailand. I have funds/savings in Europe and make transfers to my Thai Bank account. I requested for a Tax Identification number but the officer asked me to show my bankbook and want to tax me over the funds I transferred to my Thai account during 2022. (less the official deductions).
For as far as I know I only have to pay over income that I received in Europe and transferred to Thailand, and not over savings. Am I correct?
-@HKT Expat

You don't have to pay tax over personal transfers to your Thai bank account. That's what the majority of expats do on a regular basis.

@HKT Expat This is definitely wrong. What county are you from? What's your citizenship?

Netherlands. I know it is not correct but the officer didn't want to give me a TIN, only after I can show my bankbook or a statement from the bank.

Netherlands. I know it is not correct but the officer didn't want to give me a TIN, only after I can show my bankbook or a statement from the bank.
-@HKT Expat

"only after I can show my bankbook or a statement from the bank."

So,what's the problem?

The problem is that they want me to pay tax over the money (a couple of million bath)聽 that I transferred into Thailand.

The problem is that they want me to pay tax over the money (a couple of million bath) that I transferred into Thailand.
-@HKT Expat

You said that in your first post, but not in the second. I have transferred many million baht to Thailand over the years. I don't have to pay any taxes in Thailand because of the so called "Double Taxation Agreement." That's an agreement between countries saying that you only have to pay taxes where the money was earned,meaning in your home country.

The problem is that they want me to pay tax over the money (a couple of million bath) that I transferred into Thailand.
-@HKT Expat

Something is weird with the person that you are working with. I have been here for 2-1/2 years and have transferred money from the US several times. Sometimes more than a million. I've never had to pay any taxes. There was never any mention of it.

The problem is that they want me to pay tax over the money (a couple of million bath) that I transferred into Thailand.
-@HKT Expat
Something is weird with the person that you are working with. I have been here for 2-1/2 years and have transferred money from the US several times. Sometimes more than a million. I've never had to pay any taxes. There was never any mention of it.
-@rzugnoni

You haven't been in contact with this "Revenue Office" officer like this guy. Why would your bank say anything about paying taxes? You haven't understood the topic.

@HKT Expat

Just wondering why are you asking for a Tax ID number to begin with. Even if you lived here more than 180 days, you don't need a tax ID from Thailand. I've been living here full-time over 7 years and I don't have one. I don't have to pay income taxes in Thailand because I do not work here. All of my income comes from outside of the country.

@HKT Expat Why do you want a Tax ID number if you're not working in Thailand?

@HKT Expat Why do you want a Tax ID number if you're not working in Thailand?
-@zeuswmo

You get interest on your money in Thai banks. Even from saving accounts. Normally twice a year, in June and December. But you have to pay tax, I think it's 15%. With a TIN you can get the money you paid in tax back. You can actually go back 3 years. Even as a foreigner.I've been thinking about it for years,but I'm to lazy to go to the Revenue Office and get a TIN.

What 'officer' and 'why' were you asking for a TIN number?聽 You are headed in a very bad direction, judging by what you are asking. And judging by what you wrote in the OP and your reply, you need to be very careful about online scammers - something tells me you are an ideal target.

What 'officer' and 'why' were you asking for a TIN number? You are headed in a very bad direction, judging by what you are asking. And judging by what you wrote in the OP and your reply, you need to be very careful about online scammers - something tells me you are an ideal target.
-@AussieBob99

You're posting crap again. There's nothing strange about applying for a TIN at the Revenue Office even as a foreigner. Read my post from a few min ago.Do you know anything about how stuff works in Thailand? This guy was unlucky when he got a moron for officer.

@Leeds forever! Ok, I didn't know that. It's certainly not worth my time to get a Thai Tax ID to get that 15% withholding tax back from Thailand, when I can claim a credit on my US tax return and get it back that way. My banks (Citi, UOB & KBank) only pay .25% interest, so my withholding tax was only 359 THB this past year. Not even worth my time thinking about it. The OP didn't say why he wanted a Tax ID, so we don't know why he wants one or why he think he needs one.

In 2022 I stayed over 180 days in Thailand. I did not work in Thailand. I have funds/savings in Europe and make transfers to my Thai Bank account. I requested for a Tax Identification number but the officer asked me to show my bankbook and want to tax me over the funds I transferred to my Thai account during 2022. (less the official deductions).
For as far as I know I only have to pay over income that I received in Europe and transferred to Thailand, and not over savings. Am I correct?
-@HKT Expat

I don't know why you want a Thai Tax ID, but you certainly don't need one to live in Thailand. And you shouldn't have to pay income taxes in Thailand on any monies you earned in Europe or any monies you transferred to your Thai bank. I have been here almost 7 years and I don't have a Thai Tax ID and don't want one. I am not required to pay income taxes in Thailand on my outside income or on any monies I transfer to Thailand.

@Leeds forever! Ok, I didn't know that. It's certainly not worth my time to get a Thai Tax ID to get that 15% withholding tax back from Thailand, when I can claim a credit on my US tax return and get it back that way. My banks (Citi, UOB & KBank) only pay .25% interest, so my withholding tax was only 359 THB this past year. Not even worth my time thinking about it. The OP didn't say why he wanted a Tax ID, so we don't know why he wants one or why he think he needs one.
-@zeuswmo

I don't know why he wanted the TIN either, and he never posted anything else.

@HKT Expat you should not consider and think as per rules applied abroad.

You have first to check rules applied here in Thailand and if you ask Google you will find related rules about.

But mainly if you don't have a job in Thailand and receive a direct local income or if your income is not produced by working in Thailand and received from abroad on a monthly base from a foreign company then you don't have to pay tax on it in Thailand.

Just a transfer of funds from your account abroad to an account on your name in Thailand is not subject to tax being for your normal expenses.

And to go expose yourself to a tax office asking them can only cause useless troubles and suspects in the officer. And you know how gov. Officers think in wrong way often.

Only in case that you have an official income paid here from abroad then you can start checking if there is an agreement about double imposure between your country and Thailand to be exempted of tax payment at origin and pay only here where you reside longer if tax is lower. Every country has rules about the matter.

Thanks all for your comments. I have found the answer on PWC.com Thai Tax 2022/23 Booklet. I can recommend downloading this booklet because from the comments I received it is certain that I was not the only one that didn't know the official tax rules.

@HKT Expat why is the link of the booklet you mentioned saying [link under review] are you sure about what you suggest is existing...?

Maxi Mari, just google: Thai tax booklet 2022 and you will be directed to the PWC site.

Thanks all for your comments. I have found the answer on [link under review] Thai Tax 2022/23 Booklet. I can recommend downloading this booklet because from the comments I received it is certain that I was not the only one that didn't know the official tax rules.
-@HKT Expat

You didn't ask about the official tax rules. You just asked about tax on funds/savings brought in from abroad.

@HKT Expat Just curious why you think you need a TIN number if all of your income comes from outside of Thailand. I had PWC do my taxes the first 2 years I lived in Thailand and I was not required to get a TIN or pay taxes in Thailand because all of my income is from US sources. I file & pay taxes to the US government only. I'm sure the Netherlands must have a tax treaty with Thailand similar to what the US and other countries have, whereby you don't have to pay income taxes on monies earned outside of Thailand. Please let us know what you find discover.

Thanks all for your comments. I have found the answer on [link under review] Thai Tax 2022/23 Booklet. I can recommend downloading this booklet because from the comments I received it is certain that I was not the only one that didn't know the official tax rules.
-@HKT Expat
Just curious why you need a TIN number if all of your income comes from outside of Thailand. I had PWC do my taxes the first 2 years I lived in Thailand and I was not required to get a TIN or pay taxes in Thailand because I all of my income is from US sources. I pay taxes to the US gov't. I'm sure the Netherlands must have a tax treaty with Thailand similar what the US and other countries have, whereby you don't have to pay income taxes on income earned outside of Thailand. Please let us know what you find discover.
-@zeuswmo

If you read previous posts you'll see what a TIN can be used for. What you call a tax treaty is known as a "Double Taxation Agreement".

@Leeds forever!

Yes, I understand what it can be used for, but I want to know from him why he thinks he needs one. He never answered that question in any of his posts. He refers to the Thai Tax booklet on the PWC website, but PWC did my taxes for me the first 2 years I was living here and they said I did not need a TIN and did not need to pay taxes in Thailand. Apparently, he believes he is a tax resident since he lived here for over 180 days and beleives he needs a TIN. My Thai banks did not require me to get a TIN. So, I would like to know what he thinking...

Since I reside in Thailand over 180 days I have Resident Status in Thailand and in addition I have Assessable income from outside Thailand (lease of property). This income is not taxed in The Netherlands since I do not reside and don't have Resident status in The Netherlands.

@HKT Expat I'll admit I know nothing about Dutch tax law, but I doubt the underlying principles differ much from the UK. If I earn income from a property in the UK, then it may not be taxed at source, but it is definitely taxable and I have to declare it to the UK tax authorities. That doesn't change just because I live for more than half the year in Thailand.

Since I reside in Thailand over 180 days I have Resident Status in Thailand and in addition I have Assessable income from outside Thailand (lease of property). This income is not taxed in The Netherlands since I do not reside and don't have Resident status in The Netherlands.
-@HKT Expat

HKT Expat doesn't have a clue. You pay tax where the money was earned. It has nothing to do with staying in Thailand more than 180 days. And you don't have resident status in Thailand just because you've been here more than 180 days.There are other things that has to be factored in.

Leeds forever, if you don't know the situation you should not make comments like HKT Expat doesn't have a clue!

Read the PWC document and perhaps you will learn something and think different.

Personal Income Tax (鈥淧IT鈥�)

Thailand imposes a Personal Income Tax (鈥淧IT鈥�) on worldwide income, through the application of source rule and residence rule.

Source rule applies to foreigners who earn Thai-sourced income, and thus, are subject to PIT in Thailand, whether or not such income is paid in Thailand.

Residence rule applies to foreign-sourced income, depending on the status of the foreigner as a tax resident in Thailand or not. The Thai tax year follows the calendar year, and tax residency is defined as when a foreigner stays in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating 180 days or more in any tax year. A tax resident earning foreign-sourced income shall be subject to PIT in Thailand if such income is brought into the Kingdom in the same tax year in which such income is gained. On the other hand, if the foreigner is not a tax resident, PIT in Thailand does not apply to foreign-sourced income.

From the Revenue Department website;

Personal Income Tax (PIT)

Personal Income Tax (PIT) is a direct tax levied on income of a person. A person means an individual, an ordinary partnership, a non-juristic body of person and an undivided estate. In general, a person liable to PIT has to compute his tax liability, file tax return and pay tax, if any, accordingly on a calendar year basis.

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into 鈥渞esident鈥� and 鈥渘on-resident鈥�. 鈥淩esident鈥� means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

A tax resident earning foreign-sourced income shall be subject to PIT in Thailand if such income is brought into the Kingdom in the same tax year in which such income is gained. On the other hand, if the foreigner is not a tax resident, PIT in Thailand does not apply to foreign-sourced income.
-@HKT Expat

I used PWC to do my taxes the first two years I lived in Thailand and their ruling was I did NOT have to pay PIT taxes in Thailand even though I lived here for the full 365 days since I file taxes in the US and since the money I bring into Thailand comes from my savings. Don't overthink things. You can transfer money from your Dutch savings with no issues from Thai tax authorities even if you lived here 365 days per year. You get to decide if the money in your savings was from previous years.

The best website I came across is: hope this will also be a good and reliable information for other expats in the same situation instead of all the nonsense of people that say; I live in Thailand for many years and never paid taxes

The best website I came across is: [link under review]
I hope this will also be a good and reliable information for other expats in the same situation instead of all the nonsense of people that say; I live in Thailand for many years and never paid taxes
-@HKT Expat

I used PWC to do my taxes the first two years I lived in Thailand and their ruling was I did NOT have to pay PIT taxes in Thailand even though I lived here for the full 365 days since I file taxes in the US and since the money I bring into Thailand comes from my savings. You can quote the PWC booklet all you want, but you are just complicating things. You can put your income in your Dutch bank account and then make transfers to Thailand tax-free with no issues from Thai tax authorities. You get to decide the money you transfer to Thailand came from previous years income, and not in the same year. You don't need to overthink things. You can pay taxes wherever you want, it's up to you, but don't quote the booklet you just found on the PWC website and tell others they are wrong, because some of us are not. I get to decide when the money I transfer to Thailand was earned.

@HKT Expat Found this website from Embasy.com. It states that "Only income earned inside Thailand shall be subjected to tax during retirement. Therefore, you will not be obliged to pay any taxes for any income you earned from overseas. Also, personal income taxes are not required for retirees in Thailand. I just wanted to share the website. I am a retiree and I am not obligated to pay income taxes in Thailand on my retirement & investment income since all of it comes from outside Thailand.https://www.thaiembassy.com/faq/do-retirees-pay-income-tax

@HKT Expat
Found this website from [link under review]. It states that "Only income earned inside Thailand shall be subjected to tax during retirement. Therefore, you will not be obliged to pay any taxes for any income you earned from overseas. Also, personal income taxes are not required for retirees in Thailand. I just wanted to share the website. I am a retiree and I am not obligated to pay income taxes in Thailand on my retirement & investment income since all of it comes from outside Thailand.

-@zeuswmo

"Only income earned inside Thailand shall be subjected to tax during retirement."

This is not correct because when living in Thailand as a retiree on an extension based on retirement, you're not allowed to work. When married to a Thai and on an extension based on marriage you are allowed to work and you'll have to pay tax. How hard is it to understand that as a retiree you pay tax where the money was earned? Your questions were answered in February.

@Leeds forever!

I understand what you're saying, but the website didn't state anything about anyone being on a retirement visa. It only stated if you are in retirement, which means you can be in retirement and be married to a Thai and have a marriage visa and still work in Thailand. Not hard for me to understand. Maybe they should have done a better job with their wording to clarify the difference. I was merely trying to point out to the original poster that any income earned outside of Thailand is not taxable in Thailand which he seemed to indicate since he wanted a Tax ID to be able to file tax returns in Thailand. And, by the way, I don't have any questions...

@Leeds forever!

But if you married to a Thai and have your pension paid in your country abroad, bringing in by credit card, Atm card or bank transfer the money you need to live every day, every month or when you like, you will not pay any income tax cause it's not money earned and produced in Thailand.

The fact that you could work doesn't mean you have to pay, cause you can help your wife without earning 1 baht

Is this so hard to understand...?

@HKT Expat

What makes you think that being 180 days in Thailand is equal to be a resident here?

The one year retirement stay permit is not attesting that you are resident, right because the stay permit is just temporary and must be renovated every time and to be a permanent resident requires a very different process not just after spending 180 days in the country like they do in Europe where they apply a complete different tax approach which is unknown here in Thailand.

If you have a business or a job and you have a work permit with a proper work visa then some tax obligations could start but till then just with a retirement status and your funds transferred once in a while are not subject to tax system like they pretend to do in Europe where every excuse is good for tax offices to take advantage and squeeze money from any person on the territory, even local or foreigner.

I had this discussion with my friend too, and was very hard cause he cannot think in separate ways but main point is not mixing what is there and what is here. Do what is required there but not repeat the same here.

If you can get foreign residency in your country and be tax exempt there in consequence of that, no need to pay the taxes here automatically. You can be exempt there cause you stay less than 181 days in your country, and transfer your funds here and not pay any tax here being perfectly legal cause the two stories are completely independent. And in Thailand they don't put any weight on fact that you stay more than 181 days here.

By the way the retirement visa is just a name not a fact, you can get that visa before retirement when you still work in your country, or when you just jobless and get or not a social income help, only cause you are over 50 age, that's the real main limit for this visa and stay permit.

I know it's complicate to do but we must think with a double brain system disconnecting the rules and forgeting what they want us to think in Europe when we stay and live in Thailand. All this is based on 43 years of experience living, working and analyzing tax aspects in my last 43 years abroad in EU, Extra EU and Far East countries聽 where I've been living more than the 181 days established by the European tax concept.

@Leeds forever!
But if you married to a Thai and have your pension paid in your country abroad, bringing in by credit card, Atm card or bank transfer the money you need to live every day, every month or when you like, you will not pay any income tax cause it's not money earned and produced in Thailand.
The fact that you could work doesn't mean you have to pay, cause you can help your wife without earning 1 baht
Is this so hard to understand...?
-@Maxi Mari

I have said this to many people here and I was maybe the first one to answer the first question on this topic. I know everything important about taxes and where to pay them and I know how it works in Thailand. So,I don't need any info about it. Get it?

One thing I guess you don't know about paying tax on pensions. The reason people from (most) western countries don't need to pay tax on their pension while living in Thailand long term, is the so called "Double Taxation Agreement". It's a bilateral agreement. If a country doesn't have a DTA with Thailand, retired citizens from that country can be forced to pay tax on their income from pension in Thailand, and they should be glad that Thai banks don't report every foreign account holder to the Revenue Department. If they did, retirees from for example third world countries would have a problem. They most likely don't have a DTA with Thailand.