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Can you please provide a link?edit: I believe I've found ithttps://aseannow.com/topic/1306896-thai-government-to-tax-all-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/#comments

@JonSt

I sent message with links. I also posted link on another tax thread with title:

New Tax laws from January 2024

On another forum, the following Question was asked:

In light of the new tax rules that became effective 1 January 2024, what are you actively and seriously planning and intend to do in response?

I answered as follows:

- I will not remit any monies in 2024. I will use monies already in Thailand.

- I will keep my 2024 monies in home country, and never remit to Thailand,

    since I will be a tax resident in 2024 (in country for 180 days are more).

- I will not stay in Thailand for more than 179 days in 2025 (non-resident).

- I will remit only pre-2024 & 2025 monies in 2025 to replenish THB accts.

- I will remit only Social Security in 2026 & future years when tax resident.

- I will not file a tax return, and will not pay income taxes in Thailand.

- I will continue to pay taxes on all of my income in my home country.

Based on the official Thai Revenue Dept. rules that I have read, this is the best strategy for me going forward to insure I have no tax obligations in Thailand.

To all.

Any links, threads, comments including mine are superseded by calling your bank or accountant.

You will not be taxed when transferring monthly income with the following reason

Support family..........

Doing this every month... never hear from anyone

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Absolutely untrue

@Arild  Huitfeldt

The fact that you do not really respond plus do not give an alternative makes me really doubt you conclusion

Anyone that says that an advise from bank or accountant is 'untrue' should reconsider or specify his answer or give an alternate advise

Also doubting that I transfer money into Thailand with the mentioned reason and not paying taxes is kind of 'ackward'

@Zeus.wmo

Hello, Zeus,

I have happened to see your  post related to this topic.

I am a expat  self-funded retiree in Thailand not receiving any pension.

Did you yourself:

1-Experience anything where your money remitted from outside Thailand was levied as the foreign sourced income?

2-Newly apply for TIN(tax identification number)?

3-Receive any official notices from Thai tax office?

Today, I forwarded a query to one of the accounting firms.

And their consultant said that if the only source of  Thai income is the interest from Thai bank, No Need  to lodge Thai tax return.

As the 15% non-resident withholding tax is applied. 

And Nothing else has to be done.

He also added that  I don't have to lodge any tax return either(it means no need to apply for TIN)

Could you please tell me your story(if you don't mind).

Did anyone(expat without Thai work permit/labor income in Thailand) ever:

1-experience own remittance from outside Thailand  was levied after January this year?

2-Receive any official notices(to declare own foreign income) from Thai tax office?

If I can find anyone with that sort of experience, I am keen to hear.

    Did anyone(expat without Thai work permit/labor income in Thailand) ever:1-experience own remittance from outside Thailand  was levied after January this year?2-Receive any official notices(to declare own foreign income) from Thai tax office?If I can find anyone with that sort of experience, I am keen to hear.        -@border hopper

It was announced officially by the Thai gov't in Sep 2023, effective Jan 1, 2024 for calendar year 2024. The tax filing season begins in Jan 2025 through Mar 2025, so no one is being levied right now, and no, they are not sending out official notices to every tax resident in the country. If you are a tax resident and remit overseas monies, it's up to you to determine whether you need to get a TIN Tax Identification Number and file a tax return by Mar 2025 for tax year 2024 based on how much money you bring into Thailand. A tax resident is one who stays in Thailand for 180 days or more during a calendar year.

There's a lot of good information on the Aseannow website. You can do a search on Google for "Thailand to tax foreign remittances aseannow". I'm sure many expats haven't read about this yet, but it's official.

If you get a LTR visa under the Weathly Pensioners category, all of the money you bring into Thailand is tax exempt. That's a new program they started a few years ago, and recently made it tax exempt.

    @Zeus.wmoHello, Zeus,I have happened to see your  post related to this topic.I am a expat  self-funded retiree in Thailand not receiving any pension.Did you yourself:1-Experience anything where your money remitted from outside Thailand was levied as the foreign sourced income?2-Newly apply for TIN(tax identification number)?3-Receive any official notices from Thai tax office?Today, I forwarded a query to one of the accounting firms.And their consultant said that if the only source of  Thai income is the interest from Thai bank, No Need  to lodge Thai tax return. As the 15% non-resident withholding tax is applied.  And Nothing else has to be done.He also added that  I don't have to lodge any tax return either(it means no need to apply for TIN)Could you please tell me your story(if you don't mind).        -@border hopper

My story is, I am retired, married and I'm on a yearly marriage extension. All of my income is US-Sourced, and I file & pay taxes there every year. I have some interest from my bank accounts in Thailand, but they already withhold 15% on that. I read about Thailand taxing foreign income on the aseannow website a few months ago, and it is official. I am a tax resident because I stay here more than 180 days a year. Some of my income is tax exempt, like my US Social Security due to the DTA Dual Tax Agreement, but all the rest will be considered assessable income and taxable depending how much of it I bring into Thailand.

So, I will be applying for a LTR Long-Term Resident visa next month when I get my new passport back from the embassy, then any monies I remit to Thailand will be tax exempt as per Royal Decree 743.

@Zeus.wmo

Thank you for your reply.

Looks like no one seems to have experienced the 'impact' of the new tax regime Thai govt advertised.

What makes a fine line between a tax resident/non-tax resident is, whether I transfer fund from abroad to Thailand or not.

In other words, definition of Thai tax resident (to expat) is inconsistent: If I don't send any money to Thailand, I am deemed a non-tax resident for that year.

By the way, did you yourself apply for TIN?

@Zeus.wmo

Thank you for your reply.

@Zeus.wmo

I have read your reply.

Don't I have to apply for TIN until I send any money from home country to Thailand?

As only the amount remitted to Thailand from abroad is deemed 'assessable income'.

(And the Thai bank interest is subject to 15% tax and its is outside assessable income.)

Is my understanding correct?

Or do I still need to have TIN before January-March, 2025 even if I don't have lodge any tax return due to absence of taxable income in Thailand for 2024?

Even if I don't transfer any fund during this year.

Before I post this, I read this(The Revenue Department' web booklet).

[link under review]

@JonSt

Web booklet issued by The Revenue Department of Thailand.

@Zeus.wmo

> I will remit only pre-2024 & 2025 monies in 2025 to replenish THB accts.

Is it technically possible to prove that the remittance is pre-24&25 income?

    @Zeus.wmo> I will remit only pre-2024 & 2025 monies in 2025 to replenish THB accts.Is it technically possible to prove that the remittance is pre-24&25 income?        -@border hopper

Sure it's possible. I keep my pre-2024 monies in a separate account from my 2024 monies, and have my year-end statement from 12-31-2023 showing how much was in the account then, and how much is in there now.

    @Zeus.wmo
I have read your reply.
Don't I have to apply for TIN until I send any money from home country to Thailand?
As only the amount remitted to Thailand from abroad is deemed 'assessable income'.
(And the Thai bank interest is subject to 15% tax and its is outside assessable income.)
Is my understanding correct?
Or do I still need to have TIN before January-March, 2025 even if I don't have lodge any tax return due to absence of taxable income in Thailand for 2024?
Even if I don't transfer any fund during this year.
Before I post this, I read this(The Revenue Department' web booklet).
[link under review]
   

    -@border hopper

I think the tax filing thresold for a single person is 60,000 THB and 120,000 THB for a married person, but don't hold me to that. If you remit less than the threshold then you are not be required to file a tax return even if you are a tax resident (staying 180 days or more in country).

    @Zeus.wmoThank you for your reply.Looks like no one seems to have experienced the 'impact' of the new tax regime Thai govt advertised.What makes a fine line between a tax resident/non-tax resident is, whether I transfer fund from abroad to Thailand or not.In other words, definition of Thai tax resident (to expat) is inconsistent: If I don't send any money to Thailand, I am deemed a non-tax resident for that year.By the way, did you yourself apply for TIN?        -@border hopper

What makes someone a tax resident, is whether they stay in country for 180 days or more. That doesn't mean they have to get a TIN or file a tax return unless they exceed the assessable income tax filing threshold, even if they are tax residents. I suspect most expats in Thailand will never file tax returns. Most Thais don't.

No, I never applied for a TIN and never filed a tax return. I've been living in Thiland since 2016.

Good luck. I'm signing off now and won't be follwing this topic any longer.

I thought applying for the TIN is the bad idea.

By having that, The Revenue Department knows I am here.

And then, they  can start extorting  me.

Without TIN, they are highly unlikely to pinpoint me from the sea of people.

no actually But when renewing your visa or crossing the border, they may require to see if you have paid your taxes (or your declaration.) If no declaration, you will have to declare why? . And there you start the problems.

@Nutsbul

Crossing the border very highly unlikely.

Visa extension could be used IF the various departments are linked, highly unlikely as well, and if you are in extension on bank balance, how would they see income.

And again, there is the DTA

There are six threads now on this subject.

The puddle gets muddied with similar questions repeated and slightly different answers from all participants...

Again another thread that does not ever mention retiree income.

Initially the law was designed to tax capital gains from Thai nationals gained oversea.....

BUt since Thailand does not want to discriminate () they left the Thai Nationals part out

Key Provisions and Implications

The reform mandates taxation on all foreign-sourced income remitted to Thailand, affecting dividends, interest, rents, and capital gains. This broad scope aims to prevent tax evasion and ensure fair taxation. The law details guidelines for compliance, affecting tax planning and investment strategies. Residents must now consider the timing of income remittance and potential tax liabilities, highlighting the need for strategic financial planning to navigate these changes effectively.

Potential Challenges and Problem Areas

The tax legislations complexities pose challenges for those with diverse foreign incomes, such as digital nomads, investors in international markets, and individuals receiving capital gains from abroad. Determining tax liabilities for such varied income streams, alongside the intricacies of tax treaties and the timing of remittances, requires diligent management. These challenges are compounded for those who navigate multiple jurisdictions, making compliance a sophisticated endeavor that necessitates robust planning and a keen understanding of both Thai and international tax landscapes.

If you stay in Thailand for less than 6 months a year and are a non resident. Can you send money into your Thai Bank account without paying tax.

Even more drama for this topic

Just one highlight

Expats in Thailand, meanwhile, have raised questions about tax treatment of pension income from past employment when that money is brought into Thailand. If this money is taxed in their home country and that country is one of the 61 that have agreements with Thailand to prevent double taxation, in theory there should be no problem. But debates about interpretation of the law are ongoing.

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The following rule is about European systems for expat.

Don't know about other continents but could be similar.

Any EU European that want to live in Thailand more than 6 month should get in touch with own local Municipality in order to change the own anagrafic registration and become a EU citizen living abroad with foreign adress, this will allow to be inscribed at own Embassy at the anagrafic office too.

This action will allow to issue a certificate that can be handed to the social pension office in own country and allow to be income tax exempted in own country and receive the full gross amount in your original EU account for whole 2024 year outside Thailand.

This is made to prevent future double taxation wherever you stay and in any case, if  the expat pays or not taxes in Thailand.

In future will see from March 2025 what and if Thai revenue office will ask something about previous 2024 income.

But in meantime each expat saved the EU taxes. That's the General EU double taxation prevention Law.

@Maxi Mari

100% correct on the DTA and where to be taxed and how you can influence that

But choosing for Thailand means you have to show all possessions/assets/savings you have in the partner country as well

I would definitely not want that as it would have implications on inheritance when I marry a Thai national and die before her/him/it

I think that everyone's position is different and there is no one solution for all. Let the DTA guide you, as Max proposed, and act according your situation

I personally,  with a corporate tax background so understanding agreements and situations related to them, am pretty sure that the Thai government will not

tax brought in income from pensions, allowances and savings for expats/non immigrants unless it falls under wealth taxes and capital gains

And especially not if there is a DTA in place. 

Auditors/accountants/advisors will make it more complicated and therefor expensive.

I'm pretty sure the DTAs are country specific in the EU.

E.g. in Denmark, I have to pay danish taxes on my pension even if I live abroad.

@Maxi Mari

Maxi Mari, thank you for this information, I think it varies from one country to another, I pay 8.5% taxes for my 9.51% pension.

In THAILAND I would have to pay 20%, unless the funds are not sent directly to Thailand; it's from single to double.

@martinoo2002

I was not saying to chose in advance for Thailand to pay tax.

I was just saying to make the proper procedure in your country to be exempted to pay in your homeland.

This does not oblidge to declare anything of your assets to Thai authorities.

Are two different things.

@raoul11

You saying that in your country there is no tax exemption procedure in case that you live abroad? Sounds strange to me.

Anyways tax exempted income could stay and still be credited on your homeland account without transfer it directly to Thailand and use your ATM card to withdraw from savings when you need and use Credit card for payments that will also be charged on your homeland savings. In this way being not taxable in Thailand due to the rule that living in Thailand using savings cannot be taxable.

Another thread headline

Expats in Thailand, meanwhile, have raised questions about tax treatment of pension income from past employment when that money is brought into Thailand. If this money is taxed in their home country and that country is one of the 61 that have agreements with Thailand to prevent double taxation, in theory there should be no problem. But debates about interpretation of the law are ongoing.

P

@Maxi Mari

Dear Maxi Mari,

No, I am not saying that there is no double taxation treaty on the contrary, pensions that are paid directly in Thailand are protected by the treaty and taxes will be paid in Thailand.

I am simply saying that in Thailand they are taxed at 20% while in Belgium, my country of residence (Europe), they are taxed at only 9.51%.

@raoul11

I think you need to make a clear distinction between private pensions and governmental pensions

The first is deductible in the source country during contributing to the allowance and therefor will always be taxed in source country

The other depends on where you submit taxes and it your case Belgium seems the cheaper way

    @Maxi Mari
Dear Maxi Mari,
No, I am not saying that there is no double taxation treaty on the contrary, pensions that are paid directly in Thailand are protected by the treaty and taxes will be paid in Thailand.
I am simply saying that in Thailand they are taxed at 20% while in Belgium, my country of residence (Europe), they are taxed at only 9.51%.
   

-@raoul11

I don't know what kind of pension do you get and what's the amount, but it seems very strange that in Belgium is just 9.51% personal income tax and not progressive % growing at different levels when income is higher.

We cannot change what Thailand is asking to pay, that's their decision. They consider that life is much cheaper in Thailand and that we save a lot compared to Europe.

In any case if your pension is remitted in your Belgium account and not transfered directly to a Thailand bank account then is very difficult for Thai tax office to pretend any tax from you. Cause they don't have any evidence and in fact you live in Thailand using your savings, which is tax exempted also in Thailand.

On the other hand if you stay outside Belgium more than 6 month then there must be the rule to ask Belgium pension fund to be exempted of that 9.51% too and then see how it will be in future in Thailand.

At the end if Thailand asks to pay that 20% minus the 9.51% that you do not pay in Belgium will result in a 10.49% that you effectively give to Thai tax office.

Or to avoid any taxation risk just stay a total of 179 days in Thailand and the rest elsewhere.

Can be in nearby Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia or Europe as you wish. So you will not pass the 181 days in any of the places you stay and avoid completely income taxes.

    On another forum, the following Question was asked:
In light of the new tax rules that became effective 1 January 2024, what are you actively and seriously planning and intend to do in response?
I answered as follows:
- I will not remit any monies in 2024. I will use monies already in Thailand.
- I will keep my 2024 monies in home country, and never remit to Thailand,
    since I will be a tax resident in 2024 (in country for 180 days are more).
- I will not stay in Thailand for more than 179 days in 2025 (non-resident).
- I will remit only pre-2024 & 2025 monies in 2025 to replenish THB accts.
- I will remit only Social Security in 2026 & future years when tax resident.
- I will not file a tax return, and will not pay income taxes in Thailand.
- I will continue to pay taxes on all of my income in my home country.
Based on the official Thai Revenue Dept. rules that I have read, this is the best strategy for me going forward to insure I have no tax obligations in Thailand.
   

    -@Zeus.wmo

And how will you do if they connect the extension of the Retirement stay permit visa to any kind of certificate issued by Embassy/consulate or other entity confirming that you get or don't get an income abroad....?

@Maxi Mari

They could indeed do that is they are able to connect various departments with one another and that is the current issue in Thailand

That is also why Non immigrant based on bank balance is a better way

@martinoo2002

No need to connect interministerial departments , just an order to check when asking extension to provide a bs document of any kind that they invent in their mind.

Like they do in Bok ChaengWattaná when officer give blank paper and pen to foreigner and oblige to draw every year the map of the city area where we live, with roads, shops etc and condo site to demonstrate that you know where stay and is a real address. Or when they ask the slip of TM-30 presentation to see if updated.... And they know well our adress after ten years of 90 days report (like criminals free on parole....) But still they do to control honest foreigners, but cannot control the real mafia that skip any of this....

They can invent who knows what document copy from our Tax office to be issued and translated to Thai/English with chop from Thai embassy abroad and recognition by Ministery of Enterior and Exterior of our land and presented to Thai immigration that will hand it over to Thai Ministery of finance.

To squeeze foreigners that are capable of every kind of action and connection.

We must be prepared and have the right antidote for any situation and provide something legal that block them to know to much but satisfies their "thirst"