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@ApogeeDuet

Yes. I am in same situation.

I have one of these documents and hope it is sufficient evidence to allow my non-EU partner to remain with me for more than the 3 months her Schengen Visa allows

I have presented this in my application for a Family Reunion Visa although this is not a required document.

In my case, I had two Portuguese citizens from the local area sign the document that they both have known us as a couple for 5-6 years and that detail is stated within the Unification document itself.

The process was relatively simple - the witnesses did not even have to attend personally at the Camara (town hall).

They both signed the back of the form and gave a copy of their Portuguese ID as evidence. It was processed within one week.

slugsurmamates, unfortunately a confirmation of Uniao de Facto from a Junta da Freguensia doesn't replace a residence permit, it only acts as a marriage certificate equivalent in a residence permit application for your non-EU partner. Your partner still should apply for Article 15 - EU citizen family member residence permit if you are a EU citizen. I believe a Family Reunion visa is for non-EU citizens who have a Portuguese residence permit and want to bring their family members to Portugal.

Could you please share a photo of the document that was signed by two local Portuguese citizens (namely their statement in Portuguese saying that they know you as a couple)? My lawyer told me that usually witnesses sign this document before a notary public to make it a legal document. If I understand you correctly you didn't go a notary public with your two witnesses?

@ApogeeDuet,

Each parish council (junta de freguesia) has its own form.

Here's an example (PDF doc) from a parish council in Porto (Paranhos) to prove the de facto union (bottom of the page):

2 witnesses.

You can translate PDF/DOC formats into English using a Doctranslator, such as:

Regards

> Each parish council (junta de freguesia) has its own form.

That's exactly my point. I'm looking for a junta de freguesia which doesn't require witnesses and is willing to trust me and can issue this document for a small remuneration to its private pension fund.

??? Corruption ???

No way !!!

Is willing to trust you ??? Forget it !

It seems a donation or simply to know the right people is the only way to get it done.

I'm not asking for something illegal, I'm only looking for a junta da fregusia which is willing to comply with EU laws that don't mention any NIFs shmifs, witnesses, etc for a civil partnership.

I know that in Spain you can get it done very fast if you know the right lawyer in the right province. You can get there pareja de hecho (uniao de facto) and apply for a residence permit in a few days. In Portugal people have to make a dozen phone calls a day to SEF for months to get an appointment, and somehow nobody calls it corruption (hard to imagine such level of incompetence without nepotism, etc).

You talk about what you don't know. It's not about incompetence. There are a number of circumstances that led to this problem with the SEF, but things are getting better.

You talk about nepotism, when what you want is to break the rules, taking improper advantage by engaging in illegal schemes. I call it corruption. I don't know any other name for it.

And well, this isn't Spain !

@ApogeeDuet

Hello

I can send you a copy of you can PM me on here.

In my case, I am a UK, non EU NHR who became resident pre-Brexit .

My partner has been with me for 6 years or so which is fortuitous as SEF are looking for evidence that we have been together for 2 years prior to Brexit Withdrawal Agreement which is around 5 years worth of evidence in our case .

SEF have not asked for this Union document, but have asked for monthly joint bank statements, my partner's name on property or lease etc going back 6 years which, I do not have, neither are these items easy to procure .

However, I've offered evidence such as Utility bills in partner's name at my UK address, the fact that I have formal support letters made by myself for UK and Portuguese Visas (to Embassies, easy for SEF to confirm) going back to 2017.

My partner has a 10 year UK Visa going back to 2018, which was also paid for by myself, and all supporting documentation on record, inn my name, as support for that Visa being issued. Etc.

Together with the Union Document, I believe this more than provides sufficient evidence of our relationship going back 6 years.

My application for Reunification Visa was initiated with the assistance of CLAIM Albufeira, who ought to be aware of the processes and best routes to acquire an extended stay for my partner.

We made this application around Feb/March thus year and, to date, we have not had a response .

My partner has now successfully applied for another Schengen Visa which lasts 90 days from middle of Jan 2024. We will use that 3 months in the attempt to have her application accepted or request yet another 3 month extension - if possible - before we exit again in June 2024.

Far better and comprehensive that joint names on bank accounts...IMHO.

The Union Document was simply an additional step we took to support the application.

My two signatories were my landlady and her mother with whom I've rented constantly over 5+ years

Hope this helps.

slugsurmamates, if you have the Uniao de Facto document which states that you have been a couple for more than 2 years it should be enough evidence for SEF, since Uniao de Facto has the same legal status as a marriage certificate (at least in the case of Article 15 for EU citizens who bring their non-EU family members). I don't understand why SEF wants you to be a couple for more than 2 years, by law Uniao de Facto minimum time requirement is 2 years.

I think bank statements and lease agreements from abroad have no legal weight in Portugal since SEF can't verify them (anyone can print a lease agreement with any names on it, the same goes for bank statements), and that's why the law (namely SEF) requires this Uniao de Facto certificate, this is the only legal document in Portugal for a registered Civil Partnership (at least that's what my lawyer told me).

Your partner can get a visa extension in Portugal for 90 days two times (180 days in total), each new visa costs 90 euros and the only proof they ask - enough cash for 90 days and a booked airbnb/hotel/long-term lease/etc. The issue though is to get a SEF appointment in time for a visa extension, you may have to travel to another region for that.

@ApogeeDuet

Yes.  I agree with all of that and .. even getting an extension was difficult pre-Brexit and pre-Scandemic   even though SEF appointments were possible or the SEF Offices were open for walk-in (Yes, remember those hazy days!?!) as SEF appeared to be transfixed in processing you through a local solicitor to manage any extension application.

That all said, Brexit has made things more difficult as my Union documentation - even though only granted earlier this year with a 5 year confirmation of relationship - may not be acceptable to "prove" the relationship was in place for 2 years prior to Withdrawal Agreement.

However, and nonetheless, I am encouraged by your positive interpretation and view. Thank you.

Hello

Going by your conversation, im presuming it’s not enough for the city council to have a statement by both persons, under oath, indicating that they have been living in a non-marital partnership for more than two years?

umm…it just seems strange to ask for Portuguese witnesses when you’re a foreigner with no friends and family here…  especially to be asking for portuguese witnesses for your relationship outside of portugal

@Mydeliveries

Hi.

Not sure it is the city council that requires the evidence, rather SEF does.  I think that makes sense.

@slugsurmamates

what i meant is that if its proven to the city council in this manner then isnt that enough for sef? doesn’t make sense to ask for portuguese

witnesses for a relationship existing out of portugal 

The link i sent states that it can be proven to city council in this manner.

so why isn’t the proof of one government body enough for another?

especially in relation to establishing a proof of relationship out of portugal where no portuguese witnesses can be given 

I think they accept/demand Portuguese Uniao de Facto documents since there is no international (or sometimes even national) legal document that acts as a marriage certificate equivalent for registered civil partnerships. In Spain for example if you get a pareja de hecho (uniao de facto/civil partnership registration) at a notary in one region and then you move to another region, you have to pay a notary in that region for a new pareja de hecho document and then get a new residence permit.

The international recognition of civil partnerships almost doesn't exist, that's why many people have to get married in order to move abroad.

advice taken from the previous link i posted:

How to prove a non-marital partnership:

The non-marital partnerships can be proved through a statement issued by the parish council. To request this statement, the couple must submit:

a statement by both persons, under oath, indicating that they have been living in a non-marital partnership for more than two years

full copy certificates of each person's birth registrations.

For the non-marital partnership to be recognised, the persons cannot be under 18 years of age, be  first-degree relatives (mother or father with children, and siblings with each other) or have been convicted of murder or attempted murder of the other person's former spouse.

—â¶Ä”â¶Ä”â¶Ä”â¶Ä”â¶Ä”â¶Ä”

I’m just following the conversation and my question is, if a non-marital partnership in portugal can be proven to the camara in this manner then why cant one use this method ? Take the proof from the camara to sef.

maybe this is another way because theres no way youre going to get a portuguese witness for your relationship out of portugal

@ApogeeDuet

When I was attempting to acquire an extension to Schengen visa for my partner back in early 2020 (it wasn't necessary as Portugal locked us both up way past the 90 days in any case, as it transpired) a solicitor that I contacted remarked that an issue is that Portugal does not have the same "common law" provision as the UK does. 

PS. I've forwarded you a copy of my personal Union documentation, plus copy of the form provided by Albufeira Camera in order to process that application. No visit to Camara by witnesses was required. Both provided a photocopy of their ID Card that was signed on blank A4 sheet of paper and was simply stapled to my application.  The signatures matching on the application form, of course.  No further checked were required and the Unification Document was then collected a few days later - no further questions, no interview. Remarkably easy for document that holds much sway!!

Oh, we didn't provide birth certificates, I guess that our passports were a sufficient substitute.

.Best of luck

The international recognition of civil partnerships almost doesn't exist, that's why many people have to get married in order to move abroad.        -@ApogeeDuet

Its recognized in most countries worldwide.

@slugsurmamates,

You shouldn't share personal information here.

slugsurmamates, I received it, thank you. So it seems my lawyer was wrong and your junta da freguesia didn't ask for some sort of notarised affidevit written in Portuguese by your witnesses (that they know you as a couple for two years, etc). If I understand correctly a junta da freguesia should be satisfied with their signatures on your Uniao de Facto application and copies of their IDs? (and in case of any doubt I guess they would ask your witnesses to come with you).

Mydeliveries, the huge issue with the current form of Uniao de Facto law is that it is incompatible with expats. Since how you are going to find/know two Portuguese people who know you as a couple for two years if you are just moved to Portugal a few days ago.

@ApogeeDuet

That is correct.  No notary nor solicitor involved in my case

Usually the signatures of witnesses have to be recognised by a notary/lawyer.  I find it quite weird that the parish council doesn't require this. Perhaps this should be reported... ?

@JohnnyPT

Not sure, Johnny.  The requirements were in no way clandestine, however, as I vividly recall an "example" of the signatures required when I visited the office to collect the form.  The lady at the desk took time to explain to me also.

I had no idea about notaries being required, I simply took guidance from town hall

Perhaps just another example of very imprecise guidelines or specific agencies and offices interpreting the requirements there own way .

I've come across this many times, an I am sure you have too.  In UK we expect requirements to be black and white, quite concise.

Not so in Portugal.

It is what it is and we all attempt to navigate around these idiosyncrasies The best we can.  Sometimes very frustrating, other times to our advantage .

Thinking this is why there are so many views and challenges in these various threads. Almost nothing is precise!!

@slugsurmamates,

You've probably bumped into an incompetent official... All the signatures of both the applicant and the witnesses must be done in person at the Junta de Freguesia in the presence of an official. And if one or both of the applicants are foreigners, the birth certificates must be legalised in Portugal, in accordance with the rules for legalising documents required by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The rules are well defined in Portugal, not just in the UK!

But I recognise that, unfortunately, there is still a generation of public sector employees who lack much in the way of competence... this kind of public sector competence should be outsourced and quality standards should be demanded by the State. And in this regard, there's something I agree with you  .... It's unacceptable to pay mediocre public workers with our taxes...

Eg.

@JohnnyPT

And/or incompetent politicians or civil "servants" that come up with asinine evidence requirements such as asking for seven years of monthly joint bank statements?

Hurdles for those that attempt to respect the rules, open borders for others.